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Gateway To Product Reviews => Air Gun Reviews => : Silo May 05, 2007, 12:20:03 PM

: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 05, 2007, 12:20:03 PM
Okay, this is not going to be a good review as far as pics and printouts go.
We had a great day at John’s place zeroing in scopes and Chronying a bunch
of pellets in a bunch of rifles... here's a link to his post on the "shoot out":

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2893&mid=18492#M18492

Thanks for a great day.... and good brunch John, I had a blast  :)

The 460 (in .177 cal), as expected fell far short of RWS’s bogus velocity figures and if you
had bought the gun purely for the high velocity …. You’d be very disappointed.
Also the gun has rusty grease coming out of the breach, along with a “rough”
Sliding sound, which has already produced scratches along the sliding breach.
We JM silicone lubed it and it did improve a lot as the day whent on.
A complete takedown, clean and lube will be a must for this gun (tomorrow)

The rifle itself is a Diana 48 (with underlever from a 46) in a Diana 300R Stock, plain and simple.

Chrony averages by pellet type:

CP heavies      10.5gr             848fps
Gamo Rockets   9.8gr             914fps
Beeman FTS      8.9gr             975fps
CPL’s                 7.9gr             998fps (maxed at 1007)
And last but not least PBA’s 1115fps (max)
 
So I’m expecting it to push CPL’s at over 1000fps after break in. Even at that
Speed today it was very accurate, the only thing causing any bad shots was me I’m afraid  ;)
I’ll more than likely stick to the heavier pellets though.

We did notice a small but steady power increase as it shot more pellets. I had to
Reduce the elevation on the scope about 3 times during the day.
The rifle also did not seem to mind what pellet you put in it… they all shot very
Straight, some of them stacking at 30+ yards. (which for me is pretty good)
It also (at 30yards) did not require much if any adjustment when changing between the different pellets,
this nice trait may disappear as it breaks in though… I hope not.

The trigger is very nice (T05), I made no adjustments to it. It’s crisp and exact. (the nicest I’ve shot with so far)

On the whole I am pleased with the purchase.
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: longislandhunter May 05, 2007, 12:36:36 PM
Enjoyed your review very much.  Enjoy your new rifle, it's a beauty.  

Jeff
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 05, 2007, 02:49:19 PM
Thanks Jeff  :)
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: shadow May 05, 2007, 11:00:01 PM
Yes Roald nice review and great lookin shooter there. 8) Ed
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Gene_SC May 06, 2007, 02:22:31 AM
Nice Eye Candy Roald and great review...:) I assume this is a .177 Cal? How much do you estimate it weighs with the scope?

Thanks for sharing

Gene
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 06, 2007, 02:30:54 AM
not too sure Gene, must be close to 10lbs... just a bit less 9.5 maybe.  It's very slim and sleek, which
makes it "feel" lighter than it really is I think.
Yes, it's a .177
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 06, 2007, 09:42:46 AM
Okay I've done the strip down, clean and lube tune on the 460.
Fist off I must say that it's by far the easiest springer I've worked on.
3 pins and 3 screws and the whole thing is apart. see pics of pins etc.

The rifle is very simple also compression tube, piston, spring & giude and trigger....
simple is good.

The bad was that I found a lot of rust on the inside of the tube (see pic)
It was surface rust and came off easily enough, but I feel that it's BS that
a new rifle can have that much rust inside it (minus 1 for Diana)

Anyhow, it's all lubed and clean now and boy! I find it hard to believe just how
much of a difference a bit of spring tar and molly can do for a gun.     :)
It shoots quieter now and has that good "thunk" sound.... I love it.  8)

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: JMG May 06, 2007, 11:04:10 AM


Holy cow Roald look at that compression cylinder rust lol. Thats insane man!! Looks like someone stored the cylinders in a fishbowl and then assembled the gun without cleaning it up first. I agree 50 lashes with a bat to Diana for letting that gun leave like that.



John

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Gene_SC May 06, 2007, 12:03:02 PM
It has been my experience when watching CDT do the RWS models, I was very surprised at first at how dry they were inside. In fact both of my RWS 34's were dryer than a bone inside.. The newer one did have a bit of thin lube but very very little.. Ya Roald, that seems to be remarkable what a good lube tune does for the RWS Models..:) They are very well designed and of much higher quality than the Gamo air guns but lack that one thing... "LUBE"  hehe... On the other hand I have Gamo's that shoot like 5 and 6 hundred dollar guns after a Turbo Tune and GRT-III trigger installed..:)

Thanks for sharing the tech stuff Roald..

Gene
: RWS 460 Magnum review update... a few 100 Pellets later...
: Silo May 20, 2007, 02:06:27 PM
Well I've put quite a few pellets through the 460 now so I thought I'd give you all an update.
I took it out to John G's place for the "North Texas Shooting and Eating club" meet on Saturday
see it here:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3072#M19819

Anyhow, the rifle shoots like a dream. I always thought that I (being a wobbly type) was
an "okay" shot, and resigned myself to be mediocre for life, However, after this weekend I may
just change my mind on that one. This 460 hits what ever you point in at. It's amazing.
I was using Beeman FTS'es all day and I'm not sure if it's just a real good match or what
but this rifle has changed my shooting life. All the way out to 40 yards is was spot on.
This was the limit of the range (John's huge back yard). I had a blast. I have never shot an
air rifle that well in my life, so it's safe to assume that the rifle had a lot to do with it.

I will now (with confidence) tell anyone that this is a very good buy and if you were thinking
about getting one... just do it!   :D

Oh yes.. and now I've weighed it, it's 9.8lbs scoped... a tad heavy.
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum review update... a few 100 Pellets later...
: longislandhunter May 21, 2007, 12:39:41 AM
Congrats,,,, it's a beautiful things when shooter and rifle "meld".    

Jeff
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 23, 2007, 02:44:11 AM
Man I wish I lived closer you everyone. id love to just sit and sample guns and see if i fould one I liked..


Thanks for the review.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 25, 2007, 06:57:18 AM
Thanks for your review. Based upon my own experience, you are dead on so to speak. The Diana web site does indicate the velocity for the 460 to be within a few meters/ sec. of the 48. I enjoy the Diana side-cocker as a fun gun. Solid hit on the target. So I thought that experience in an underlever was what I hoped to find. This unit is no disappointment in that regard. Just a different, slimmer, more rifle- like (longer)feel compared to the 48/52 carbine feel.  I noticed the gritty rust colored grunge also and the fine trigger. Although I committed to purchase the 460 before you posted, I breathlessly read your review in anticipation of receiving the gun. Anyone reading this should rest assured your review was spot on.  Really RWS, why would you try to sell this gun as a monster 1350 fps. when it is perfectly suited as a normal magnum with similar fps. characteristics as the 48/52/54. Truth to all.  Oldfed
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 26, 2007, 04:13:00 PM
I purchased a Mendoza RM-200 last year (.177) and was fairly impressed with what a pellet rifle could do. My only other experiences were with Crosman or Daisy multi-pump pneumatic BB/pellet guns. The only thing I don't like is that it sounds like a rickety screen door when it cocks and it prefers larger diameter pellets. I think it was bored to use Mendoza's own pellets. It produces about 9 to 10 ft lbs. This will be my first victim for a noobie tear down/tune.

     Second rifle I purchased was a Diana 46E (.177) with a stamp date from '99. I think it was discontinued but $150 seemed like a good deal. I was expecting a little more power but ended up with only a hair more than the Mendoza. Now that I think about it, I recall seeing rust colored junk in the loading port. I'll probably find the same problem as the OP. It grouped a bit better than the 1st rifle and isn't as picky about pellets.

     Third is a Diana 48 (.22) that I can't say enough great things about. My friends all agree that it's a really nice rifle with good power (20.5 ft lbs). My brother loves it. He came over to the house today while I was at work and picked off the furry little pests around the bird feeder. $320 is a little steep for most casual air rifle shooters but to me it's worth it. Now if we could only get Diana to improve their scope rail system. It's far too short and doesn't have a proper hole to drop a scope stop pin into.

     I'm looking to purchase a 460 in .22 in the near future. I saw one distributor said that caliber won't be in stock till September. Thanks for the heads up on what to expect. I've been looking forward to this rifle since late last year.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: daved May 27, 2007, 05:42:10 AM
Hey, Shawn, welcome aboard!  The only Diana I've had personal experience with is a 350 in .22, but I've heard good things about your 46.  I think it should be producing a little more power, say 12-13 fpe.  It could probably use a good cleaning and tune up.  And yes, $150 does sound too good to pass up.  Being a '99, I assume it has the TO-1 trigger.

A good gun is worth whatever it costs you.  My first was a CFX, paid about $200 with BSA 2-7x32 scope.  Add $30 for a GTX-II trigger from Bob.  Then another $180 for CDT tune and GRT III trigger.  Finally, another $145 for a Theoben gas ram.  Did all that, it was shooting outstandingly, then gave it to my brother for his birthday.  Good thing my wife doesn't know how much that rifle REALLY cost!  My current #1 gun is a Beeman HW 77 living in a 97 stock.  Retails for $460 or more, got mine used for just over $400.  Worth every penny.

Regarding the scope rails on the Diana rifles, two suggestions.  First, use an Accushot 1 pc. mount turned backwards, and hang the stop pin over the front of the rail.  Second, try the BKL 1 pc. mount.  No stop pin, but they have 6 clamping screws.  I had one on my 350 with a Simmons 44 Mag scope, didn't slip at all.  Good luck, and hope this helps.

Dave
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 27, 2007, 10:42:03 AM
BB Pelletier on the Pyramid Air blogs said something similar about turning a one piece mount around and hanging the stop pin off the front of the rail. I don't have any problems with the Beeman 5039 adjustable mount (made by Sportsmatch) on my 48. It has 4 clamp screws and a stop pin in the shallow hole on the Diana rail. This one you can't turn around backwards or the adjustability is useless. I spent the better part of a day zeroing the mount and have yet to touch the windage and elevation adjustments on the Bushnell Trophy 4-12 scope held by it. It hits everything you point it at with Crosman Premier domed pellets. It's just a shame the rail isn't longer to add say a bubble level or something. I've also seen pics of a stop pin that plowed a groove in a Diana rail. 2 more inches of length and a deeper stop pin hole would be perfect.

The 46E was sort of an economy version of a regular 46. It has a plain stock without checkering or a cheek piece. That's fine by me since I'm left handed anyway. It at least has a longer scope rail and the T0-1 trigger ( I should have left it alone but it's all out of whack probably). I ordered a Maccari GRT kit for when I tear it down. I heard Diana springs in the 90's had problems of being too brittle. God only knows what I'll find inside if it was spitting out rust and has low power lol. I bought it last year from Midsouth Shooter's Supply in a closeout sale. I think they were selling the 300 repeater at the time as well. They usually have the best prices on most anything. The fact that they're one state away and you get your stuff in 2 or 3 days is sweet.

On my next day off I'm going to start construction of a spring compressor. I should be getting the lubricants along with the above mentioned spring kit any day now. I just got several punches and misc. other tools a few days ago. Where's the best place to learn where and how to apply the different tars and lubricants? I have heavy, clear and velocity tars and moly paste from Maccari, Beeman moly paste, and misc. oils. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: daved May 27, 2007, 04:00:29 PM
Afraid I can't help much with the lubes, and that's one of the few things Bob's a little secretive about :-).  I think JM's site has some general guidelines about what to use where, I think the most important thing to remember is too little is better than too much.

Hey, how do you like that Trophy?  Is there anything you can compare it to that I might be familiar with?  And can you tell me why the Trophy is almost double the cost of the Banner?  Scopes I'm familiar with, several different Leapers, Simmons 22 Mag and 44 Mag, Nikko Stirling Platinum Nighteater, and a BSA 2-7x32 AG scope.  I was looking very seriously at buying a Trophy, but couldn't quite justify the cost without better info.  And since I live in the boonies, there's no place around to check them out personally.  Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Dave
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 27, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
Shawn,
I know that you will enjoy this rifle tremulously, If the 177 can shoot this well the 22 should be great.
Today while shooting (Beeman FTS) it started to the exceed comfortable speeds and lost accuracy a bit.
I'll have to start using 9+ grain pellets to keep it in the "safe" speed zone. I guess that seal is breaking
in or something because the power definitely stepped up a bit today.
It's still an amazing shooter even at the faster speeds, the groups just opened up a little 1/2" groups at
40 yards is still pretty good.  
- Roald
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 27, 2007, 05:38:05 PM
Shawn,
Bob has a lube guide here:
http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/All%20about%20lubricants.doc
- Roald
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 28, 2007, 11:39:03 AM
I laughed for a second seeing your link to the lubricants document then glanced down and thought I saw your signature say I only eat paste. Vision gets weird looking just over the top of my glasses combined with a weird imagination. Was it some guy in Asia that was consuming small quantities of motor oil and grease? Then there was that other guy that stood on a board and charged himself up with the high voltage from a TV cathode ray tube.

Yes, I've seen this before and forgot about it. I gather there is room for experimenting with the tars and such? If it doesn't work, take it apart, degrease it and start over. Am I right?

I've become a huge fan of .22 caliber after buying the 48. It's slower than the .177 version but it has a bit more power (16-18  vs. 20-22 ft lbs). When pellets get near the speed of sound, they destabilize. I like the idea of a slower but stable projectile that hits with more punch.  It's great for targets or hunting. It's too bad Diana probably won't offer the 460 in a .25 caliber version. That would be interesting.

I read on the somethingawful.com gun forums about that 11 year old kid killing a 1/2 ton pig in TX with a hand canon (.50). Said it would make about 6 or 700 lbs of sausage. Geez, that's crazy. They also mentioned small roving bands of wild pigs tearing up crops at night down there. You ever go out to pick a few off?
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo May 28, 2007, 12:15:06 PM
Shawn, you're right about playing around a bit with the lubes.
Heavy tar is for springs and I found any place where you want a grease to stay put
and obviously internal to the gun (it'll trash your clothes)
I molly the piston from just behind the lip of the seal and use a tar / molly mix where
it's metal to metal. I also like to use Belray waterproof grease, really cool stuff
for joints and linkages etc.
http://www.motoxoutlet.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=802

Wild hogs... airgun... naa I'm too chicken for that. Gimme a 7,62 .... something in automatic
then I'll feel safer   :)
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 28, 2007, 12:54:10 PM
Dave,

I got my 1st Bushnell 3X9 for a .22 HMR when I was 15 or so. It worked great over the years and I gave it to my brother for his 10/22 when I bought a Bushnell Banner 3.5-10X36 for my 10/22T. It is designed for .17 HMR and .22. I replaced it a few months later with a Tasco 10-40X50. Ya you can read the lettering of a target at 50 yards with it but only in bright light. It seems to get dark on high magnification. It works ok but I wouldn't buy another Tasco. I converted the 10/22T to fire .17 mach 2 with Volquartsen parts, ran 200 rounds through it and haven't touched it in a year lol. I bought the 3 air rifles I have now and put the 3.5-10 Banner on the 46E and the 4-12 Trophy on the 48. I've heard people say to spend as much on the scope as the rifle. I figure I spent half as much. These 4 scopes are the only ones I have experience with.

The Banner scopes are pretty darn good. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I think they are made in  Korea. The Trophy scopes are made in Japan where they have a bit more overhead in their manufacturing costs. It might have more lens coatings, nitrogen filled or something to justify the cost. It's ironic the Japanese make rifle scopes in a country where guns are outlawed but they make pretty good optics.  Bushnell says both the Banner and Trophy 4-12x40 are made for break barrel air rifles and Straight Shooters says they are rated for medium recoil. Both have adjustable objective, 1/4" @100 yrd clicks. All the details are on Bushnell's web site. I'd say get the Banner. It's $87.82 at Midsouth Shooter's Supply.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Gene_SC May 28, 2007, 01:31:06 PM
Shawn, thats funny about finding a Bushnell scope on Midsouth Shooters.. I did not think they carried Bushnell scope. So I went and checked it out and did a search on Bushnell and nothing came up.. Maybe you got the wrong vendor or I am blind.. hehe

But that same Bushnell Banner Scope 4-12x40, is on Natchez for $83.95..:) And $89.64 at Optics Planet W/Free Shipping
Gene
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 28, 2007, 02:20:26 PM
Yes, the search doesn't turn up anything but it is listed in the 4-12 scopes if you use the menu on the left hand side and go to optics. It didn't turn up anything for bubble level either when I used the search one other time but they have one. They probably need to spend a little more time fine tuning their search engine. They have increased their line of air rifles in the last several months. Last time I checked, they had the best price on all the RWS models. I haven't done a thorough price check in a while though.

Thanks for the heads up on those vendors. Did you use Price Grabber or just Goggle a search to get those quotes? I need to be more bargain savvy.  I'll check them out next time I need another scope. About the same time the 460 in .22 is in stock.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Gene_SC May 28, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
Ok Shawn then I am blind.. hehehe .. They probably don't sell many with the way they hide them..:)  I used our Mall to find the best prices.. The GTA Mall has some of the better Vendors for pricing. The scopes you will find good prices on Natchez and Optics Planet.. And Optics Planet always has free shipping..

Gene
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: May 28, 2007, 03:18:55 PM
I was quicker to ask dumb questions then to actually look around lol. You probably need to make a permanent notice for all new users to read before asking questions. A general list of where information is before posting a question. It would probably save you tons of space on the forums from noobie questions. Then again you may already have one posted and I totally missed reading it.

Is there a section for DIY tuners to share their projects and ideas? I thought maybe The Shop was the place for that but it turns out it was more or less about home workshops. This will probably be another dumb question. Sorry about that. I would like to post a few pictures and details of an upcoming tear down/tune on a Mendoza RM-200. It would be nice to get some feedback from other members. Especially if it's to point out something I did wrong. Thanks.
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: JMG May 28, 2007, 04:06:05 PM


Shawn at the bottom of the page that lists all the forum gates we have here at the GTA is the Airgun mods and tunes page that has everyones projects going on. As far as I have seen the moderators are pretty lenient on where things are posted so no worries... and as far as I know there arent any stupid questions except for 1... "Should I buy another airgun?" The answer to this question is always yes hehehehehe.



John

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: June 17, 2007, 06:25:39 AM
which heavy hunting round provided the best accuracy, silo?
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: JMG June 17, 2007, 02:33:38 PM


Unfortunately my friend Roald aka Silo is back home in South Africa until the 25th. I can tell you as a good friend of his that he has really liked using the Beeman FTS's in his 460. That should be enough of a teaser for you to ask more questions of him when he returns.



John

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo June 26, 2007, 07:48:58 AM


Hi... I'm back :) had a blast (I'll tell y'all about it later)



Christopher, John is right. the Beeman FTS work very well inthis gun. I have bought some



Beeman Kodiak's (a bit heavier) I'll try them out and lat you know how it works out.

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: MEHavey December 18, 2008, 12:32:47 AM
Roald,

`Would dearly love to pull my 460/.22 apart and clean/lube it from stem to stern.  (Never trust a man you've never seen laugh, or a gun your haven't torn down.)  I've got about a half century w/ firearms, but generally like to talk to those who know more than I do when it comes to things that depend on really big springs.  Therefore three questions:

- Are there any web cites w/ disassembly/inspection/lube instructions out there before I just "go at it" ?

- Are there any sources which have the *proper* lubes/greases other than in "1/2-oz" sizes that are "all out of stock" ?

- Though I don't current have problems, I hear it's a seal-eater.  Are there sources for spare parts?

With about 7 different pellets/1,000 rounds through it (and Lock-Tite/penciled witness marks everywhere), I finally trust its consistent performance.  It must be time to tear it apart and start over.  

 8)
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo December 18, 2008, 02:02:10 PM


Hi Mike,
Charlie sells lube's and can be bought from most of the Smiths on the web.
I pulled mine apart and honed the cylinder, deburred it and tarred the spring... lightly.
It's a fine shooter andstill shoots ashard and as accuratelty as ever. Th etriggers tend to be a bit heavy
but with the right TLC can be made very slippery ;-)
Why not ask Charlie ot Geneto tune for you, that way you'll know its done right and will not need
"tweaking" for a while
You'll need a spring compressor to get it undone without breaking stuff too.
I found a parts diagram that helped a lot with the taking apart on the Pyramydairsite.
SorryI could not be of more help.
Roald.

: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: MEHavey December 18, 2008, 03:48:12 PM
Thanks,  Roald.  I'd been prowling around and found bits & pieces of the info in various places (including Pyramidair) but your suggestion to hand it over to a pro is probably the most sound.  (I did order up a spring compressor and the chamber/cylinder lubes at Compasseco this morning, but am still digesting the info in Jim Maccari's Lube/grease site for now.)

One minor irritant you might be familiar with:

The cocking lever detent/ball bearing is held in spring tension by the adjustment screw in the underside of the front sight housing.  Like everything else in a springer, that screw tends to back out.  This results in inconsistent cocking lever retention/tension, which results in inconsistent barrel vibes -- which immediately results in groups starting to move around/open up.  (The rifle shoots RWS-Match as one hole at 20 yards when that tension adjustment screw is a half-turn off fully-locked down.)

I tried removing the screw it so I could blue/LockTite things, only to have it begin to bind up after a half-dozen turns and before it would fully unscrew loose.  

Is there any reason that I shouldn't be able to simply unscrew that thing all the way?
: RE: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo December 18, 2008, 04:25:28 PM


Mike, I have to admit that I have not had a problem with it and so have never removed it.
But youre right, it looks like it should just back all the way out.

: Roger that, Thanks :-)
: MEHavey December 19, 2008, 01:35:52 AM
It *should* back out.  
(Time for some Day-Glo Nail polish.)
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: douglas george March 17, 2009, 07:45:05 PM
I have a RWS 460 Magnum in 22.  I got it used from an air gun dealer from Kansas City, at a Wichita KS gunshow last fall for $400.  The first owner never fired it!  But the first owner threw away the box...so the dealer said it was a used air gun.  He chronographed it with RWS hobby pellets...and claimed it averaged 1062 fps!  I shoot it with RWS Superpoints, and Beeman Kodiaks.  After about 200 rounds this fine rifle is real smooth...and very accurate!  It will shoot a Superpoint, and a Kodiak through one side of a heavy steel coffee can at 65 yards...and clean through it at 25 yards.  I have a RWS 30mm 3-9X44 scope on it with a RWS "Lockdown 4 screw mount.  The scope is heavy, the gun and scope together weigh more than 10 lbs.  I think this air rifle is the big brother to the RWS 46.  In 22 I think this would be a good "Bushy Tail" gun  The RWS 460 is a fine looking, hard hitting large size air rifle.  It is on the wall next to my Wicchester pre 64 model 70, and the 460 is longer and weighs more.
Douglas George
: Re: RWS 460 Magnum.
: Silo March 18, 2009, 03:06:35 AM
I agree, these are great air rifles. In fact its one of the few springers I've kept
after going to HPA / PCP.
It's deadly accurate and easy to shoot straight, it's not hold sensitive or very pellet fussy
either.