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Gateway To Product Reviews => Air Gun Reviews => : DanoInTx November 03, 2007, 09:19:03 AM
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I bought this gun to replace my TalonSS which went to a good friend and fellow forum member Dave Dunn, or "DaveD" for short. These are the same gun as the FX Tarantula, the FX2000, RWS Excaliber, and a few others that came in a two shot variant. Mine is the full 8 shot rotary magazine version with black synthetic sporter Monte Carlo style stock. The gun is rated from 12-30fpe in .22 caliber and I would guess that is pretty close to the actual values. The gun was bought used from someone who answered my 'wtb" ad a few weeks ago, and came in shooting about 28fpe from what the previous owner said.
Still haven’t been able to sight this one in. The neighbors are in their backyard today with their little dog “Barkbarkâ€. As much as I would love to send Barkbark off to sleep with the fishes, I don’t do any shooting when they are outside. Nice older couple, just the sort of people that would call the police. On the other hand I have no problem sitting in the yard with a chrony and making 4-5 foot shots into a duct seal wad while writing down the results. Here goes…this is turned all of the way down:
1) 468.7 463.2 460.0 458.1 456.0
2) 457.7 462.1 466.0 455.7 451.3
3) 456.7 459.7 460.8 458.4 454.0
4) 461.9 465.3 460.0 455.2 453.5
5) 464.6 462.1 458.0 458.1 452.5
6) 459.9 467.2 463.8 457.4 453.5
7) 467.6 469.4 466.9 455.7 451.7
8) 462.0 458.3 457.0 461.7 452.4
Start fill pressure 195 bar or 2830 psi
End fill pressure 155 bar or 2250 psi
Pellet Beeman Kodiak .22" 21.1 grain
Right around 10-11fpe, perfect for the backyard, but still loud. That was 40 shots with a very respectable string, I suspect I could keep going for another 40 shots and they wouldn’t drop much. The cocking cycle with the Kodiaks is poor, but I think that is because the Kodiaks have a small center hole in the skirt unlike most pellets, so the bolt probe gets stuck or even possibly caused the skirt to flare and push hard into the breach. I am starting to figure out how this gun likes to cycle, nice and slow. If you start ripping them out real fast it will sometimes not index the clip and you’ll get an empty shot. I tried a clip full of Benjamin Diablo's through it and it cycled much better than with the Kodiaks....I need to make a pellet order soon.
The trigger is a 2 stage 5 way adjustable deal, but with closer inspection it looks a little like the psuedo 2 stage thing the Chinese did on the AR2078 where the second stage is really the trigger pivoting against a spring and no true 2 stage where both stages do work. The biggest problem I have is that most of the trigger screws are only adjustable with the stock off. What makes that a problem is because the gun cocks on closing the breach like a QB78 you have to do an actual dry fire to feel your adjustments. There IS a half cock position in the bolt so you can do a no-air dry fire, but it doesn't feel the same as when the actual hammer spring is behind it...so it's pretty useless. Half cock is also the safety for this gun and is very effective...just like leaving the bolt open. Now that I have shed all of my complaints about the trigger, I will say that it feels pretty good. You pull till you take up the first stage, then the pull increases and "snap" off goes the pellet. At first I couldn't figure it out, but that was beforee I realised the no-air dry fire postion was different from full cock.....now it feels really good.
The fit and finish is pretty good with my only two beefs being the synthetic stock and the enameled reciever and air tube. I think everything should be blued steel and hard walnut, but I guess it doesn't matter about the paint instead of bluing because airguns don't get hot. The synthetic stock is similar to the synthetics FX is currently putting on their guns. It's not the same kind of plastic as what you would find on a Gamo, it's more like some sort of vacuum formed stuff, kinda like a wiffle ball bat...I think the Gamo synthetic is nicer, but I think this might be lighter. It's all still plastic, I don't like it, but it came with the gun. The ergonomics of this stock are also a little poorer than what you would find on the Gamo stocks. I think these guys in Sweden must get the same guys to use as hand models as the Chinese do when they make their stocks....the trigger pull is loooooong. The stock however shoulders pretty well, although the cheek weld could be better.
Since I started writing this my neighbors have driven away and I can go sight this in:
I have a limited size backyard. I get about 13 yards from my porch to my trap, it's enough to sight in ok, but just tells you if you have a pellet that works "ok" in your gun. I loaded a magazine of 8 more kodiaks and started sighting in without refilling since my 40 shot string. Within 5 shots I had it hitting dead center. I loaded another magazine and took 8 more one holers. At 13 yards accuracy is stupid boring with guns like these, where they really shine is at 100+ yards. At 13 yards you shoot through a magazine of pellets and never know if anything is coming out after the first shot because it only makes one hole. I think the Kodiaks may be a little on the heavy side for this gun, and it obviously doesn't like to cycle them, so I'll make a pellet order and see if I can put a few more lighter weight pellets at a distance to see what it will do on high power instead of low. I've now put 56 shots through this gun on a 195 bar fill, the gun is now at about 140-145 bar. I suspect on high power that number will go way down, but I think I could easily get 100 low powered shots out of this thing between fills.
Neighbor is home again and talking to my wife, I wonder if Barkbark told on me...oh well, such is life:)
That is a Leapers 3x12x42AO side wheel adjustable 30mm scope sitting on a set of what I believe to be Mac1 drooper mounts.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=818)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=817)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=816)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=815)
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=814)
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Fine review Dano, can we see some pic's of her. It's that addiction thing you know hehe. Ed
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Pics will follow shortly, I have to charge my camera batteries!
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Hey Dano,
Great review, CONGRATULATIONS on your NEW baby !!!!
Sounds great !, but I would bet that those one hole groups are harder to come by, at 100 yards ?
I wish you the best of luck with your new rifle !!
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Big_Bill - 11/3/2007 8:40 PM
Hey Dano,
Great review, CONGRATULATIONS on your NEW baby !!!!
Sounds great !, but I would bet that those one hole groups are harder to come by, at 100 yards ?
I wish you the best of luck with your new rifle !!
The real test is the "158 Yard Challenge", that is the distance from Steve Corcorans back porch to the stock tank where he perches the soda cans filled with water. If you can hit a soda can at 158 yards with an airgun you have truly lived in an airgun sort of way. I have hit those cans 2-3 times with the B50, twice with the TalonSS, and hopefully I will hit some with this one. It's amazing watching those cans pop at that distance. Not so unbelievable with a powder burner I suspect, but with an airgun and a relatively light projectile it's tough! You have a lot of holdover to deal with and wind that changes direction over the little hills and valleys at Steve's place. You might shoot a foot off to the left, then the wind changes and the next shot is 3 feet off to the right and a foot high. This gun at high power will get the pellets out there, I just have to learn how it likes to be shot:)
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Dano, care to elaborate why you sold the Talon, SS? I've been thinkin' of selling my sweet .22 CFX, with GRTIII trigger (I want something with more velocity and yardage in a .22) to get one of these. My .22 CFX will do 700 fps and change with RWS Superdomes, but I'd like a rifle that might add a few hundred fps to that.
Charles
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The Talon had a 24" .22 barrel installed. It would launch 21.1 grain Kodiaks at close to 950fps, that will get you out over 100 yards accurately and still have some good knockdown power at 150+ yards. It was a sweet gun! Even when I bought the Talon I really wanted a repeater, and actually bought the Talon on a whim because I saw it and wanted to try one. I had a love affair with the Talon, much like how I did with the custom Crosmans I built a couple years ago. But with any love affair there are ups and downs, and sometimes one partner goes fickle and dumps the other...that is the case with the Talon. Nothing wrong with it, just wanted something new. I still think the Airforce guns are a good value, and for the tinkerers they are a dream!
I also liked making custom wood pistol stocks for the Airforce guns, but also became a little bored making the same stuff over and over and after a grand total of 9 sets I have also stopped making those. I still have the jigs I made, and if I come across a used beat to death Talon I will buy it strictly for fitting stocks.
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I bet it was LOUD! I'm torn between the standard 12 inch barrel and shroud, for noise control, and a longer barrel (condor?) on the Talon for velocity. Did you ever chrony a Talon with the short barrel? Maybe the slight increase in fps over the .22 CFX wouldn't be worth it?
I'd get a Condor and turn-down the power, but the loud report on that rifle, would be a detriment here.
Charles
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It would be more than a slight increase in fps compared to a CFX. I never chronied my Talon as a .22 12". I did chrony it as a .177 18" and as a .22 24". I think the guys on the Talon forum say you can get into the low 800's with Kodiaks on a .22 12" Talon, not sure, but that sounds right, but you have to remember a Kodiak weighs much more than a standard 14-16 grain .22 pellet and that makes a huge difference in FPE. The Airforce guns come in 3 flavors, the Talon with an 18" barrel and short frame, the TalonSS with a 12" barrel and long frame, and the Condor with a frame the same length as a TalonSS and a 24" barrel and Hi-Flow valve. All of the barrels, frames, etc are interchangeable, so you can put a 12" barrel on a standard Talon, or a 24" barrel on an SS. If you want quiet and power, get a .22 TalonSS and buy a spare 24" .22 barrel. It takes about 3 minutes to swap barrels on these guns. The .22 short barrel is noticeably quieter than the .177, and when you have space out for a day in the country throw that 24" barrel on there and get some serious power. Whenever you are launching a 21 grain pellet faster than most of the "1000fps" springers are launching a 7.9 grain pellet you will see a big difference. The 24" .22 is LOUD!!!!!! The last shootout we had where I was shooting that gun we had one guy put in ear plugs, and I had some pretty ringing ears by the end of the day. Definately NOT a backyard shooter!
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I must be going deaf, I don't think mine is that loud :-). Actually, I think the difference in my case is the custom valve I have in mine. Not only does it give me a huge power range, but it's quite a bit quieter than the stock Talon valves. The guy that makes these valves sets them up with different sized screw in inserts. This gives you the power range of all 3 Air Force bottles in one tank.
Charles, you won't be sorry if you get an Air Force gun. If you want a back yard paper puncher and hunter, get an SS in .177, with an extra 24" .22 barrel. This will give you a power range from around 10 fpe to somewhere around 50 fpe, very good to excellent accuracy, and outstanding to good shot count. And the SS in .177 will easily exceed the power you're getting from your CFX. If you go .22 SS, expect close to double what the CFX can do. Just be warned! Once I got my Talon (which I traded a Beeman HW 77 for), the rest of my springers went away in fairly short order. The last one was a .22 CFX :-). For me, the springers just got to be too much work for not enough power. BTW, did I mention that I really like my Talon :-)? If this day goes as planned, I'll be doing a LOT of chrony work today. Check back this evening, IF things go as planned, I'll have numbers on 12" .177, 12" .22, and 24" .22 barrels, with both stock and custom valve/hammer setups. Should be interesting. BTW, with my custom valve, I can get power levels about the same as a .22 rimfire. I've had 28 gr. Eun Jins shoot consistently at 1300 fps, and have had several exceed 1500. VERY loud, terrible shot count, and I didn't even try to shoot groups, but that's WAY in excess of what a stock Condor can do. That valve is the best thing I've done for my Talon. Well, gotta go start this day, later.
Dave
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Great personal objective review on your new baby Dano..:) One thing I must have missed in your review is how easy it is to pump it back to 2800 psi..:) Hope that you new baby is as accurate as my FX Cyclone. They do look almost alike..:) At the South Carolina shootout I had put up some three inch round reflectors out around 70 yards. It was dark out and we were shooting mostly at close range. David Kirby and a couple others were shooting with a spot light out about 20 meters and a bit further. I thought I would give it a try and shoot the reflectors that were still standing in the distance. Not a problem and I was successful in shooting the one on my side on the first shot. So maybe that is small example of what the FX series rifles are capable of. You are right about the stock. A nice walnut stock would really make the FX look dang good..:) I normally only use the 14 - 15 gn pellets. Those seem to be quite accurate and the FX is not fussy about pellet brand either. I only shoot round headed pellets though. Your numbers are impressive with those size pellets. For back yard plinking you do get a lot of shots on low power. Even on mid power you can get allot. But I am glad you found at least one PCP that you can power down and not make allot of noise either and just have a blast shooting. I sure hope you make that walnut stock for it buddy..:) If you can keep her that long.. hehe
Your review was great and loved how picky you can be..hehe Oh!, by the way I have never had to adjust my trigger on my FX Cyclone and it is an excellent trigger. Perfect breaking point.
Gene
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My wife just informed me that she likes the black plastic stock on this gun, she says it's one of the nicest guns I've owned. Funny how I see "plastic" and she sees "one of the nicest guns I've owned". I have a hard time looking at a gun without first inspecting the stock, and synthetic stocks bug me. Having said that, She says it's nice so I will probably leave it alone for now.....for now.
I just pumped her back up this afternoon, took maybe 50-60 strokes? I think the air chamber is only about 300CC's, so it's 3/5ths the size of that Talon I was pumping up....it's like being on vacation! Many people get turned off by pumping PCP air rifles up, and I'll admit a tank would be nice, but if you fill before you let the gun get really low it's not that big of a deal to top it off. The pumping from zero to about 120bar is the worst because at some points it doesn't even look like the gauge is moving. The Talons have big tanks, so the needle goes a lot slower. I reckon that Sumatra of your was no fun because after 10 supersonic shots you had to pump it up again....big double air tubes also.
Like I said, these rifles are almost boring to shoot at anything within 40 yards. Steve Corcoran has an FX Tarantula which is the exact same gun imported by a different company. I shot his a bit on my last visit and it was "scary" accurate, probably more accurate than his AA S410. Your FX Cyclone is the next generation from FX and has that Biathalon cocking lever. Probably a little smoother to cycle than mine, I have to set the butt on my knee to pull back that hammer spring and index the magazine. I could probably do it while shouldered, but I am not that comfortable with it yet and feel like I wont pull far enough, not index the clip and fire an empty cylinder. I've also shot David Enochs FX Gladiator, that was a smooth gun, think the action is somewhat similar to the Cyclone except that it has two air tanks.
I've also decided that I need another gun for shooting in the backyard, one that doesn't take air or CO2 and makes a big "Twang!!!" and rattles your teeth when you shoot it. Yup I am going full circle Gene, I am looking to get rid of my poor B50 and getting another springer. I have already worked out the details, but I will leave the gun as a surprize:) Review will follow in a few weeks!
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Hey Dano, you hit the nail on the head..:) To shoot these FX airguns gets pretty boring at 40 yards for sure. That's why I do not shoot mine much because of the lack of challenge. Yes the FX is like being on vacation pumping it up compared to the Samatra.. hehe
The nice thing about the Biathalon Cocking Lever is that you can keep your eye focused on target and cock at the same time without losing site of what you are shooting at.
I would suggest a good springer Dano but I know you have your own idea of what you want for your back yard. And yes I have been waitin for the circle to complete.. hehe... A simple no frills springer that would suite you purpose would be the CZ Slava 634 .177. It is quiet, shoots in the mid 600's, easy to handle and the iron sites work fantastic. The best thing about it Dano, is it comes with a wood stock.. hehe.
Gene
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Nope, no 634 for me although it looks like a nice one. I have another one in mind, and it comes from a place I have refused to ever purchase from again.....China. I am going to give the old B26 sporter another shot, it's the only Chinese gun I have ever owned that I was somewhat happy with besides my Fast Deer. I'd love to own a real R9, but I don't want one bad enough to spend that sort of change on one. I had a B26 that I bought from Wallis last year, I owned it for a whole 4 days I think, but it shot ok for 4 days:)
I am going for the sporter in .177, it will be a while before I get all of my ducks in a row though....., but I will get one.
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I'm not a huge fan of Chinese built air guns either Dan, that being said, I am very pleased with both my B26 sporters. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
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Well Dano, that is a great choice and for sure the B26 is a fine shooter. And you can tune it to be as smooth as glass and have a wonderful fireing cycle as well. Let me know when you need those delrin shims..:)
Gene
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Gene_SC - 11/5/2007 8:17 PM
Well Dano, that is a great choice and for sure the B26 is a fine shooter. And you can tune it to be as smooth as glass and have a wonderful fireing cycle as well. Let me know when you need those delrin shims..:)
Gene
I wont need those shims for awhile yet, still have to complete my horse tradin' with the B50. I will definately need them though, that rattle drives me nuts. Remember the B26 I had for awhile there, I was gonna swap you stocks? Well if you remember the stock was of kilter somehow, and the action had that rattle. I've since learned that the rattle is that way on everyones B26. After I read your post a few weeks ago about those Delrin shims I realised,"Hey, this gun is fixable, and pretty simple too". As Rod Sterling from The Twilight Zone would say,"Enter the mind of a airgunaholic!". My mind started racing,"Need new airgun, need new airgun, neeeed new airguuuuuun!". It was then I remembered a dear airgun bud of mine had shown some interest in buying my B50 that drives me crazy.....this airgun bud we will simply call "The Enabler"...he is also known as DaveD here on the forums, but that part is unimportant. What is important is that DaveD and I struck a deal, he will undertake ownership of the dreaded B50, and I will absorb my losses and get a B26 sporter. I am thinking of course that I could have bought 2 B26's for what I paid for the B50 and still have money left for a few tins of pellets..., but what matters to me is that the B50 will be in a home far, far, far away from me and in a home where it can get some love, because I am all done with love for that gun. In all honesty I just really wanted a new B26, the B50 is actually shooting quite well now, although I still don't think it's "right".
So there you have it, Memoirs of an Airgun Junky!
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Just eyeballing that baby again... nice Dano and I like the stock, got some nice lines. Ed
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LOL Dano.... DaveD is one good guy and I could not think of a better air gunner that you could pass the B-50 off to. He loves them PCP's..:) Dave and me swaped some pellets here a while back and boy did I get some good pellets for my springers:) Anyway Dano, we all are one big family here and we share most all our air gun stuff..:) And the only thing that bugged me about the B-26 was the rattle in the cocking linkage, so now we all have a fix..:)
Just holler when you are ready fer them..:)
Gene
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Ed, someday you are gonna have to buy at least one good PCP and let me tell ya something. Buy an FX and you will not be sorry...:) Get the synthetic stock so you can drag her around in the snow..:)
Gene
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I know buddy I'll step over to THE DARK SIDE! :o and then I'll want another and another hehe. Ed
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No, Ed.... You will find that one is enough.. It is a fantastic shooter with superior accuracy and power...:) With your shooting eye, you will be takin down wabbits and nutters at 60 yards or so..:)
Gene
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60yrd's hmmm...darn addiction buddy hehe. Ed
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Don't believe a word he says, Ed, 1 is NEVER enough :-)! Problem is, compared to springers, they cost so much more you have to think and plan how to get the next one. I'm really glad I started with my Talon, they are one slick little piece. As a hunter, I think you'd be well off with a Talon SS in .22. Twice the power of most of your springers, light and compact, and deadly accurate. And probably as quiet or quieter than most of your springers, as well.
But I wanted to try something at least a little more traditional, so I twisted Dano's arm real hard until a B50 finally came off :-)! BTW, Gene, you may as well send him those shims, his new 26 should be on it's way any time. And if there are any other special tuning tips or tricks any one has learned, send those along as well. Later.
Dave
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daved - 11/8/2007 8:08 AM
But I wanted to try something at least a little more traditional, so I twisted Dano's arm real hard until a B50 finally came off :-)! Later.
Hehe, don't let Dave fool anyone, I talked myself into it and then talked Dave into it. Dave is one of those guys that makes this hobby great. I have never been involved in any hobby where people will go further out of their way to make things good for others in the hobby.
BTW, Gene, you may as well send him those shims, his new 26 should be on it's way any time. And if there are any other special tuning tips or tricks any one has learned, send those along as well.
Yup, I second that. If you want to make me some shims just send me the bill....unless they are $100 each, then we may need to work out a horse trade:)
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Not a problem Dano, about the shims.. I will send them off to ya as soon as I get them made up. And you are sure right about Dave..:) He is one of those guys that give you anything you needed to make your air gunning experience more fun and enjoyable. Has a bundle of knowledge and the best part is Dave has good common sense. He knows what he wants and goes for it... hehe One last note about Dave..:) He is another man with exceptional character..:)
Gene