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General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Back Room => Topic started by: VINNY on April 22, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Title: Why pcp?
Post by: VINNY on April 22, 2008, 05:48:31 PM
I was just wondering why all the interest in pcp guns from the people that shoot springers?I know absolutely nothing about them other than what I've read.I've read about over penetration when hunting isnt good compared to impact power.I've read that a lot of people turn to springers because of the challenge.I was told by a few people that they hunt exclusively with airguns now because it makes you a better hunter, having to get closer and be more accurate to get a clean kill.More of a challenge.Arent pcp guns far more powerful, easier to shoot,[ no double recoil] and cost a whole lot more for the guns and equipment? I kind of think of pcp guns as co2 gun on steroids.Am I close at all? I suck with my springers, but I cant wait until the weather gets close to descent to go shoot.I can shoot a rifle pretty well, but I really think if I wanted to hit my monitor from here with my springer, it would be pretty safe!I want to learn to shoot them accurately, and its frustrating to suck this bad, but I will do it.I dont want to offend anyone, thats not my intention at all. I am just ignorant about airguns other than what I've learned recently.It seems like co2 or pcp guns are a lot less challenging.Now, I do realise that most of you are awesome with you springers, and you feel good about you abilities, so maybe its just something new to explore with.I am way at the beginning of my addiction. I have soooooo much to learn and soooooo much practicing to do.[God I hope you all have saved enough lead for me!]I hope you all understand my questions and I sincerely dont mean to offend anyone.I am just curiouse.
Title: RE: Why pcp?
Post by: Big_Bill on April 22, 2008, 07:01:46 PM


Well Vinny,



Everything you said is true ! And like you I enjoy the challenge and humility of shooting my springers. I even enjoy the challenge of shooting my B-3 chinese air rifle. :-)



I believe the interest in PCP, is for the extended range and POWER ! With a PCP 100 yards and beyond is possible, and larger game can be taken at longer distances.



Beyond that, I don't have a clue as "why" to want one..:) But some of them are sure pretty ! and follow up shots are very possible with multi-shot models!



Also, I just remembered, some of our fellow members have shoulder problems, and cocking the larger springers can become very painful after a shootin session.



But I don't want one because I don't have enough room for all that power, and their to easy to shoot, any way!



Bill

Title: RE: Why pcp?
Post by: kirby999 on April 23, 2008, 12:24:22 AM
Vinny, Let me begin by saying , you don't have to be one or the other . Airgunning is not like the Hatfields and McCoys. hehe . You can like either or both . It's like when I went from shooting Modern compound bows to shooting tradition recurves and longbows . Some of the guys would talk bad about either style because each though their way of doing something was better than the other guys . If you want to continue to shoot springers only and want to be a springer purist , go ahead , it's a free country in that respect . I had fun shooting my springers and learned to shoot one pretty good . I won our state match last year shooting my TX200HC . But when cool weather arrived , the arthritis in my hands told me it didn't want to be cocking a rifle everytime I needed to shoot a pellet . So I moved on ; not necessarily up to PCP's .  They are all air rifle or pistols and there's room for both CO2 included. kirby
Title: RE: Why pcp?
Post by: longislandhunter on April 23, 2008, 01:45:44 AM


Hi Vinny,



I got into air rifles a couple of years ago and like most, if not all of the other members, I  became addicted to the sport from the first trigger pull.   At last count I have 30 springers of assorted make, model, power and cost, and I love every one of em.  I am also one of those people that put my powder burner shotguns and rifles back in the gun safe and now do almost all my small game hunting with air rifles, and yes, it certainly has made me a better, more accurate hunter due to the challenges presented by air rifle hunting.  I love my springers and will continue to do most of my small game hunting with them, however I just recently purchased my first PCP, an Air Force Talon in .22 which I must say I absolutely love and which I purchased specifically for small game hunting.  



The Talons weight  and overall size make it much easier to carry for long periods in the woods, it's simplicity to load makes a fast follow up shot very easy, the power adjustment feature  of the rifle permits me to dial in the level of power I need or want for specific hunting situations  and of course it provides me with added power and effective hunting range.  All this is of course combined with the fact that PCP's are generally much easier to shoot accurately.  All this being said though I have to add that I didn't buy the PCP to replace my springers and it never will.  I will continue to hunt primarily with my springers but I now have another hunting tool at my disposal that  offers me a different aspect of small game air gun hunting for those times that I choose to use it.  



I got into the PCP thing out of love for the sport of air rifles.  PCP's offered me an opportunity to explore an area of air gunning that was entirely new and exciting to me.  I won't say it rekindled my excitement regarding air rifles because I've never lost any of the excitement that  the sport holds for me, rather it  was just like adding another log to an already roaring campfire. Exploring the PCP aspect of air gunning will provide me with the opportunity to further develop  my air gunning experience and knowledge and at the same time help me do what I love the most,,,,, hunt small game with air rifles.  



I have no doubt I will purchase another PCP,,, matter of fact I've already decided on what my next PCP rifle purchase will be,  but I also know I'll be buying more springers as well and I'll be out hunting with both types of rifles :)  I'm glad I got into PCP's as I can now enjoy both aspects of air gunning whenever I want.  Anyway,,, that's my story and I'm stickin to it :)



Jeff









Title: Well said Jeff......................n/t
Post by: kirby999 on April 23, 2008, 01:50:06 AM
kirby
Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: VINNY on April 23, 2008, 04:59:35 AM
Kirby, I wasnt trying to divide up airguns into sides. [though it is referred to as 'THE DARK SIDE']here. I was just curiose because they are so different. now I understand a lot better. Hey, I am PROUD AS HECK to go to the rifle range and be amongst the " BB GUN GUYS" when all the guys carrying rifles walk by and snicker.I dont want airguns divided.Its a sport that has sooo many great,  people to talk to and learn from. The excitement comes through in thier conversation.As you can see by my collection [so far] I have a ways to go and a lot to learn, but it sure is fun and exciting![and frustrating]I have never been this 'into', or excited about a hobby / sport before![When are the AA meetings?]Jeff explained it pretty well.Him and Shadow are who really got me to want to study and learn more about it because of their posts in the hunting gate.Sorry this is so long!!!

Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: Gene_SC on April 23, 2008, 08:05:50 AM
Here is my two cents..:) I love springers because they present a challenge. A challenge to shoot and hit what you are aiming at..:) Like Jeff, I have many air rifles and love them dearly. My interests is more into target shooting rather than hunting. Each one of my springershavea distance limitation along with a particular use. With that said each one has challenged my patients many times..:) But the end results are like taming a bull sort of speak. Very rewarding and allot of self gratification. And like Jeff I have thrown myself into the PCP world..aka Dark Side..:) And there again is a challenge but at a different level for me. When it comes to air guns I feel now that I have the best of both worlds at my fingertips..:) I am retired and plan on enjoying my future doing what I love best..:) Shooting and having fun doing it...:) Gene
Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: Splash on April 23, 2008, 08:18:23 AM
Very well put Gene, but I think it just boils down to, another toy to play with. :p  It doesn't matter what kind, or from where, cuz there all fun to shoot, even a little ol B-3. 8) and that's all that counts.
Mike
Title: RE: Why pcp?
Post by: on April 23, 2008, 09:40:45 AM
Vinny,that was a real honest question,I appreciate it, I myself am new to the sport,almost 4 months.......I didn't understand the PCP thing  & for most part was basically intimidated by them,I luv collecting/shooting air guns,I learned much from this forum,as well as  spending much quality time at Cobra Air Guns.....I set a goal in February to own at least 20 guns by my birthday 5/16...I am almost there & will probably past that soon......I have shot many different air guns,springers,pcp,co2....I enjoy them all....after shooting a variety of pcp guns,I will  take my addiction to another level,just as I have been learning about springers on THIS GREAT FORUM,I will try& learn more about the PCPs.....as I just have from reading the responses to this post from Kirrby,Jeff & Gene,there was some valuable info there,I try to keep it simple & the best way for me, is to take a page out of Mike Splashs' book.....JUST ANOTHER TOY FOR ME TO SHOOT....AS LONG AS I'M SHOOTING I'M ENJOYING MY ADDICTION.........
Title: RE: Why pcp?
Post by: Archon on April 23, 2008, 09:49:21 AM
20 GUNS?!?!

Man, at the rate they are shipping Discoveries, I will be happy to have *2* guns by my birthday hahaha

Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: DanoInTx on April 23, 2008, 02:08:38 PM
I love them all!!!

I am a particularly poor shot with a springer...well I wont say "poor", but we'll just say any squirrel outside of 15 yards is safe with me and a springer.  Last year I owned about 16-17 springers+/-2 and a couple CO2's etc.  I enjoyed shooting them, and still do enjoy shooting pretty much anything, even a Red Ryder.  Then it happened, my good friend mentioned that he had just bought his first PCP and was telling me about sniping off the birds on his property at 70+ yards, I said BS!  So I went up for a visit at my friends place and shot a little bit....at beer cans that were over 150 yards away!!!  As much as I like airguns I REALLY like long distance shooting.  Something about tossing 10 grains of lead out to that distance just really gets me going, there is a whole bunch of skill involved in just reading the wind and knowing your gun.  I know there are springers that can throw lead out to that distance, but with as much spring as that would take I doubt I could keep my eyes on the POI through the scope during the firing cycle at 150+ yards, maybe if it didn't knock my teeth loose:)   The other thing is physical for me, I've had some injuries to my shoulder that make shooting a high powered springer pretty difficult past 5-10 shots,....but I can pump up a PCP no problem.  I own only one springer now, ...such is life:)  I do really enjoy shooting that gun, especially when I don't want to mess with pumping, but I don't see any other springers on my horizen, except maybe an HW77K:)

Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: TCups on April 23, 2008, 02:53:15 PM
Something in me (and probably most men) ((and probably a fair number of the ladies)) loves a clever, efficient design, with well-made and well-fitted moving parts, and that warm, slick feeling of oiled metal machine works.  That includes guns, knives, fly fishing reels, bicycles, motorcycles and such.  Springers seem like one of those kind of gadgets men are just naturally drawn to, especially those who like to tinker.  And this is probably so even if the only thing we will ever kill with an airgun is time.  But more than that, it seems to me that a well-tuned springer (versus PCP or firearm) is very much like a sail boat.  Sail boats can be sleek, efficient, and fairly quick -- they can take you all the way around the world.  They are quiet.  They require no fuel other than the wind.  And sailing in general requires much more attention to detail and more skill in boat handling than driving a powerboat.  All in all, sailing can be a very satisfying sport.  But that said, and in defense of powerboats and PCP, you probably won't see too many anglers out there in the bass fishing tournaments in sail boats.
Title: Grew up in the swamps of Florida
Post by: 3n00n on April 23, 2008, 03:28:37 PM
Didn't do much sailing, but slipped silently around the canals in canoes with a recurve andfishing arrows. Probably why I shoot the old springers so much more than the PCP, since self powered requires 'less' than the bass boat guys need. A big fuel guzzlingmotor howling up the lake is fun, but just not my style.
Creeping in quietly and a faint 'thump' puts a big 'Cheshire cat'grin on my mug though. (http://airgunhome.com/agforum/images/smiles/bigteeth.gif)
`
The starlings don't much like that to wellhowever . . . (http://airgunhome.com/agforum/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif)
Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: VINNY on April 23, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
So what is an 'average' fps  number for a high power pcp? I thought that above 900 fps,[for a springer] the pellet is less accurate.Does the pcp shoot so hard it just blasts the pellet much further and straighter?I dont mean to sound like a total moron, I just dont know.
Title: I have springers that will move lead really fast.
Post by: 3n00n on April 23, 2008, 04:30:48 PM
PCP can as well, though the spring torque and piston recoil isdifficult for some people to figure out. However when youdo get springers to shoot well, then most other shooters become much easier to operate as well.:)
Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: Gene_SC on April 23, 2008, 04:53:02 PM
J is absolutely correct when he says the spring torque and piston recoil is difficult for some people to figure out. It took me a while to get the hang of a well tuned springer. They can be a bit of a challenge but if you enjoy them you will love em when you finally hit your spot consistently..:) As far as PCP's go they are the same in the respect that they sling lead just like the springers but without all the mechanical stuff to overcome. They are much easier to shoot and on the average are much more accurate for the average bear..:) The importance of FPS between the two types of air guns will actually depend on what you want to use them for. And whether or not you want to shoot .177 or .22 calibers. This can be a very broad question..:) Gene
Title: Cutting targets with .177 is usually less costly
Post by: 3n00n on April 23, 2008, 05:07:35 PM
For most critter gettin' the ol'.22 hasan energy edge, andgood pellet selection. Never have been much of a .20 critic, but don't own any for lack of pellet selection. That is just me though.
`
Then again, since I cast 535grain .457 slugs for a BBB tuned DAQ -I s'pose if you like a.20, then that would be the oneto usefor the task. 8)
Title: Re: Why pcp?
Post by: DanoInTx on April 24, 2008, 05:29:26 AM
Sure don't want to shoot up near the sound barrier, that kills accuracy with a diablo pellet.  The thing with a PCP is that you can shoot say a .22 caliber pellet at 950fps or so, and I'm talking a heavy .22 pellet like a Kodiak or Eui Jin.  For a hunter to be able to hit a critter at a distance with so much force is great, but still partly because of the waisted pellet design it wont carry as far as a .22LR or similar.  I personally stick with .177 because I punch paper mostly, but I DO shoot a heavy 10.5 grain pellet most of the time up between 850-950fps depending on the gun...and (almost)zero recoil.  I've heard it said that shooting a PCP is very clinical, and I agree, it's like surgery at a distance:)