GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => The Shop => : ikecorleone June 16, 2008, 02:32:53 PM
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Does anyone know where I can get a lighter trigger spring for a 2250??? I polished the articulating parts it seems a little smoother but I still have that HARSH trigger pull.
Mike
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Mike, you can over compress the spring, between your fingers and it will make a huge difference. Just squeeze it down, you may have to stretch it back out some, if you go to far, but it's a quick fix.
Mike
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WOW Mike!! I was gonna keep my trap shut this time!! IT WORKS!! Man Im glad someone else has had succsess with this method!! If you go too far the gun will not cock, pretty simple to re streatch it a tad. You can mess with it & get a pretty nice trigger,, Just ask TCups, he shot one of mine at the fun shoot. Thanks Mike, (Splash),, I feel vindicated now!! Tim.
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Tim, I'm just glad to see that I'm not the only "shade tree engineer"LOL. I've got my 2240 down to about 2.5lbs, with just a little squeeze.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif)
Mike
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Thanks guys Im going to go give it a try, or shouldIi say a squeeze!
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ACE Hardware stores have a good selection of springs. At least the ones in my area do. I found a nice one for my 1377 there. I ended up buying several because I didn't know which would work best when I got home (they're cheap). I ended up using the lightest one I purchased, and cut it down to length with a pair of wire cutters (it was a little too long as supplied).
I made a spring guide out of a door hinge pin, also purchased at ACE. If you get one of these, get the kind that doesn't have grooves on it. I cut it to length with a plumbing tubing cutter (a hacksaw would have worked too) and filed the head of it way down in diameter by chucking it up in a drill and running it against a file. The head is almost non-existent now, all that remains is a small shoulder to catch the spring. I got it to the best length by trial and error. I cut it too long intentionally, then iterated through installing it and filing it until I got the trigger to just barely release the sear and then stop. So the guide serves as a trigger stop too. There are lots of things at ACE you could use for a spring guide. Use your imagination. I bought some nylon spacers (about 1 inch long) but eventually decided on the hinge pin because of it's shoulder.
Two flat nylon washers (from ACE) sit on the sides of my trigger pivot pin now. I had to sand one down a bit in thickness since two of them are just a little too thick. Pick up some 400 and 600 grit sandpaper while at ACE - good for polishing the trigger and sear. A small amount of grease too. To finish up, I took the spring out of an old retractable ballpoint pin, cut it in half, and dropped it into the frame right above the front-top part of the trigger. This spring, plus the two nylon washers, got rid of all my side-to-side and front-to-back trigger wobble.
Be sure and check your gun for safety after working on the trigger. Cock it, without putting a pellet in, and shake it and bang it around (within reason!) to make sure it doesn't fire without you pulling the trigger.
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Haertig:
Any chance of a few pictures of the trigger job? Thanks.
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I went the "sqeeze the spring" route as well on my 1377s (same grip frame as the 2250), but added a spring guide made from used .22lr ratshot shell.
The crimped style (I used one from Federal) shot shell is just the right length. It slips right into the spring and fits on the little nub that the spring fits over. I polished the base of the shell before installing it.
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thanks.
mine is a plastic tube, cut from the cover of a sterile needle. doesn't slip over the "nub". slots cut in wood grips seem to keep things in line. shoots OK but seems a little cheesy vs the polished metal solution.
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what a great idea with the .22 shell!!! would love to see pics of that door hinge jobber.
Panther comes tomorrow!!!
Mike
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Hey Splash,, for the money, & just good ole common sense,, Ya just cant beat "Shade Tree Engineering"!! LOL!! Thanks for the "Back Up" Buddy!! Lets see if ikecorleone gives it a try?? Tim. P.S. Mike, you make some AWSOME grips, as a self proclaimed carpenter myself, I have great respect for your tallents!! Our paths will cross someday my friend. Tim.
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My door hinge jobber looks pretty much like that 22 shell jobber after I finished chopping it down to size and filing down the shoulder. Almost identical (color too!) The rim on that 22 shell is a tad shallower than my door hinge, but that's of no consequence.
[edit] p.s. - you can just barely see that ballpoint spring right there at the top front of the trigger (I slipped off the trigger shoe so you could see that better, but you can just barely see it anyway). [/edit]
[edit] p.p.s. - You may also notice that my replacement spring is a slightly bigger diameter than the original one. That was on purpose, so that it "just barely" fits in place, with no side-to-side play. There are more coils-per-inch than the original spring and the wire is much smaller gauge, so it's a much lighter spring. The diameter of that door hinge is slightly bigger than the 22 shell too - it fits the slightly larger spring perfectly. [/edit]
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Your Welcome Tim and Thank You, for the compliment. You must have seen Gene's 1377, I had FUN with that one. I'm working on a few more now, but due to the weather and the fact that my shop, is set up on the back porch, haven't been able to get much done.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-frown.gif) All that's about to change though, the Boss gave me the OK to build a proper shop, so it's going up next week.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif)
Mike
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Attached is a better picture of my door hinge job. You can now see that ballpoint spring at the top-front of the trigger. (And astute observers will also notice that my ball bearing on the safety spring has fallen out of place (damn! that happens every time I open things up!)
[edit] Also, the nylon washer on the trigger pin is now visible. There's a second washer on the other side of the trigger. [/edit]
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How do you hold the ball point pen spring in place atop the trigger blade? If you look closely at my trigger, you will see that I have carved out the upper end of the curve of the trigger blade. I have big fingers and didn't like it cutting into the top of my index finger when my finger pad was on the fat part of the shoe.
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TCups - 6/18/2008 6:36 PM
How do you hold the ball point pen spring in place atop the trigger blade?
I remove the frame from the tube. Reinstall the side trigger plate. And drop the spring in from the top before reconnecting the frame to the tube. That's the same thing I do to install the safety ball and spring. You can't put these things in from the side with the trigger plate removed. There is actually a nice little channel above the top-front of the trigger where that added ballpoint spring fits. Almost as if the frame was expecting a spring to go there.
Now, WHY the spring stayed in place when I removed the sideplate is a mystery to me! I was expecting it to fly out. But it didn't, so I took a picture of it.
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I got some good advice (from Izzy?) about disassembly. I put mine in a clear plastic bag when I take the side plate off, so if the spring and little ball go flying, I don't spend time crawling around on the floor looking for them. Have also heard that a little ball from the type of chain you find on a pair of nail clippers and the spring out of a Bic disposable lighter serve as pretty good replacements if either does get lost. Sounds like the voice of experience.
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I use a gallon ziplock encasing the 1377 for disassembly too. It doesn't fit all the way, but good enough to capture flying springs. I don't know of any easy way to reassemble that safety ball and spring though. The only "safe" way I've found is to remove the tube and drop it in from above (with the sideplate in place). I'd love to hear about other methods if they exist.
I used to grease the ball and spring (doesn't affect function) so that they would tend to stick to things and not roll around, hopefully preventing loss. But I stopped doing that after I thought about what would happen if they flew off into never-never-land on disassembly. Not only would you have to search the floor, but also the walls and ceiling too - because the grease might stick them to that! Of course, finding either of those small parts if flung into space would be a one-in-a-million shot no matter what, so I may go back to greasing them.
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sweet job on those triggers guys!! i did the squeeze trick and just got my 24'' barrel from crosman yesterday( i only ordered it a month ago) trigger is much better shooting tighter groups already!
thanks for the pics and the help guys!!!
mike
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Mike, the other trigger mods are better, I just mentioned the squeeze, cuz it's simple and saves a trip to the store. One day I may change mine, but for now I'm happy.
Mike
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I opened one of my 1377's up without thinking and promptly lost the spring and detent ball.
A quick post on the Crosman forum gave me several ways to fix the problem.
One of those ways was to use the ball and spring from a "zerk", the little thingy you stick a grease gun onto to lube machinery. A quick trip to the local farm supply store yeilded a package of ten 1/4" fittings for less money than the shipping from Crosman! :)
Who would have thought you could get airgun parts at TSC (any of the local car parts stores probably would have had the same thing, but the farm store was closer!).
Take a small drill bit and drill out the end of the fitting that holds the ball. Don't lose the ball and spring when they come out! I had to cut the spring in half to make it work, but in about ten minutes after getting back from town I had my gun fixed.
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the extra spring? To take out the slack in the trigger?
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Yes. The cut-in-half ballpoint pen spring on the top of the trigger takes out forward-back wobble and the nylon washers take out side-to-side wobble. Notice I said "wobble" rather than "slack". To me, slack means a "reversible" thing.. So with slack, you could pull the trigger back to take up the slack, but when you released the trigger it would return forward to it's original position. Wobble is useless movement per my definition. You pull the trigger back, and it stays back. You push it forward, and it stays forward. Useless movement - just an annoyance. That ballpoint spring I used gets rid of that useless movement.
With the 1377 trigger, at least with mine, there really is no slack. It is very hard to detect any discernible movement of the trigger when you fire. It feels solid. You start pulling it back, it still feels solid (you can't really detect that it's moving). Then it fires. You can see the trigger movement if you look while firing, but the travel is so small that you really can't feel it without looking. Me taking the wobble out with that extra spring doesn't change the basic operation of the trigger. With the normal wobble in place, you point the muzzle up and the trigger wobbles backwards. You point the muzzle down, the trigger wobbles forward. Finger pressure is not involved - the trigger wobbles on it's own. This is just unnecessary looseness.
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OK, yeah you're right, wobble not slack. I get it now.
Thanks!
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Yes, I understand too. I stopped by Ace Hardware and now have a $10 goodie bag of plastic washers and spacers, a few more springs, and the metal parts to fab a new spring guide. Maybe I will have something new to post after this weekend.
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Oh yes, oh yes! Just like buttah!
Well, the trip to Ace Hdw paid off. But I stayed with plastic. Bought a 3/8th inch spacer that would slip over the post in the handle and that was a snug fit for a smaller OD plastic tube to slide into. Found a flat-head plastic bolt that would easily slip in and out of the smaller OD tube used for the guide and with a head big enough to hold the spring on the guide while fitting just so into the space under the sear. Next, I trimmed the smaller OD spring guide to length so as to allow just enough travel for the sear to move through its normal range of motion with the plastic bolt in place - maybe 1/8th of an inch or less. With the small plastic bolt in place and the spring on the guide, the larger spacer used for the seat can be pushed up from the bottom so that the head of the plastic bolt can be engaged and the lower end can be easily pushed up and dropped on to the post. Finally, I trimmed the sear spring about 1/2 of a coil at a time until the pull was light and smooth. Tried your suggestion of a plastic washer to shim the trigger, but found that any additional shim together with the metal shim already in place was too tight once the plate was screwed back on. What I did end up putting a plastic shim on was the back side of the sear pin. The sear was flopping pretty loosely on the pin before that, and with the spring shim on the back side of the trigger and the plastic shim on the back of the sear, the alignment was much better and the action much smoother. White lithium grease inside and outside the spring guide, on the head of the plastic bolt, and on the trigger sear finished it off. I tried the spring over the upper end of the trigger blade, but it didn't really seem to help. No discernable creep or wiggle in the trigger now. Everything feels tight and smooth.
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Tried your suggestion of a plastic washer to shim the trigger, but found that any additional shim together with the metal shim already in place was too tight once the plate was screwed back on.
Oh. I guess I never said. I removed and threw away that original metal piece, and put the two nylon washers in place INSTEAD of the metal part. I did have to sand down one of the washers because two (one on each side) was still too fat to tighten down the trigger plate without binding a little. I just took one of the washers and pushed it around on a piece of 150 grit sandpaper to thin it. I used a screwdriver to push it around for the sanding - using your finger will end up sanding your finger along with the washer. No biggie on that really, but I didn't want to mess up my fingers - my piano playing is bad enough without me adding abrasions to the mix!
I also added one washer to the sear pin. I guess I forgot about that too. I put it on the same side of the sear as the full-thickness washer on the trigger, so those two pieces would line up without any offset (not that that would matter much - those nylon washers are pretty thin to start with).