What glue do you use?

[larspawn]

Guys,

When putting on accent pieces like grip cap or forestock extension what is your favorite glue?  

I've used the good old yellow Titebond, Superglue gel and Gorilla Glue.  Gorilla Glue failed but that was probably my fault in clamping.  

Also, when doing an angled forestock extension what is your method of clamping.  It can get tricky because the angle makes the pieces want to slide.

Just looking to get your recommendations, tips and tricks!

Andy Wong aka larspawn

P.S.  Noticed this is my 500th post.  Officially celebrating all that wasted time that I could have been shooting!

[howie1a]

Andy              I like best is super bond marine epoxy it's waterproof and I've used it on a 4 mill repair job of a president's yacht we were restoring main frames as well as decking I use it on all my work the down side is it takes 24 hrs for a total cure but their is 3 different activators to make for faster cures  If you can't get it in your area email me and I could get some for you and ship it to you .  PS it's a 2 part glue my second choice is " Elmer's exterior waterproof glue " I don't like Gorilla glue it pushes out of the joint and doesn't clean up very good. Howie Also you want an 8 to 1 for a scarf joint for max. hold  as far as clamping you will have to clamp it both ways to get it to stay it's a little tricky. lots of luck with your project.

[Timmyj1959@yahoo.com]

Heya Andy. The problem with regular wood glues are that they require clamping preasure. Done with good preasure the joint is stronger than the wood. Problem is, like you said,,,, applying clamping presure on these stock parts is VERY dificult!! I use 5 minute epoxy on all my accents. I also use about a 2" pc of dowell rod on the forearm extensions. That not only makes it much stronger,, makes it easyer to glue up. Tim.

[Timmyj1959@yahoo.com]

Here Ya go Andy,,,,, this makes it easyer & stronger. Tim.

[Meann-Machine]

The dowel is a good idea and a good way to get clamping pressure, say on a forend piece or a grip cap is with multiple rubber bands. They are relatively cheep and its easy to get multiple lengths for different jobs.

[RedFeather]

Howie, which boat did you work on, the one President Carter sold (Sequoia) or a privately owned vessel?

I've thought about Gorilla Glue but read that it expands while curing. Does that cause any problems or will adequate clamping suffice?

[howie1a]

It was not the president's yacht but a Trumpy yahct a model called a presendtial yahct a 85 footer we had accutally 2 of them in the boat yard I was working at one that was a 4 year project to restor it to new conditaion we replaces a lot of the main framing and re planked it one of them, it had 2x8 inch yellow pine hull planking and the other had 2 layers of 1x8 mogh. planking ,It was a fill in project we worked on when we were not on other projects. I also put 9 months restoring a 64 ft. jersery  skiff  did everything from repairing 60 steem bnent frames you could only do 4 per day as well as replacing the fuel tank 2 diesel engins and all the decking, we used to buy our epoxy in 55 gal barrels mostly west system epoxy's some time we thickened it for glues or sometimes we had to thine it with alochol it all depened on the applacation  . Sorry I gave you the wrong impression I didn't think it would be taken wrong the Trumpy's are very impressive for a yacht of a buygone time, They come from the 1940 to 1950 time frame I think, my boss was a marine designer he built some of the stuff at Disney world, as well being a expert on Trumpy's Howie PS theise were rich peoples hobby's restoring old boats

[larspawn]

Thanks guys.  You've added more arrows to my "quiver."  I've got a few future projects coming and your tips got my brain churning up ideas.  I'm a hack but tips from guys like you will hopefully make me "less of a hack!"  LOL

I think my stock work is progressing a bit like my house building.  I look around and think, "Gee I can't believe I did that!" and am very proud.  When people say some of my work is beautiful I know every flaw in it but am still proud that I did it with my own two hands!

Andy Wong aka larspawn

[airiscool]

I will second Howie's two choices for the same reasons.

 I grew up around old wooden boats and worked in boat yards back when wood boats were still common and it was called " repair", but that was back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Now I  do "restoration" of the wood framing in antique cars for private collectors.

Any woodworking project I want joint strength that will  last, I reach for a good quality Marine grade (slow-cure) epoxy.  Good quality epoxies  require less clamping pressure than other wood adhesives, are more forgiving of glue- joint gaps (stronger), and offer 8000+psi joint strength after they reach 100% cure (7 days give or take).

"System Three" brand "T-88" structural epoxy is what I use and like the one Howie mentioned, it is another high quaility Marine grade epoxy.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1479&familyName=System+Three+T-88+Structural+Adhesive

Only draw back is epoxies  don't do as well with very oily (tropical) woods. And they sometimes won't cure in the presence of airbourne oil vapor, such as given off by kerosene shop heaters.

And Elmers, or Franklin exterior (yellow) wood glues are also very good, but not quite as strong as slow-cure epoxies

Paul.

[howie1a]

One of the reasons for using slow cure epoxy's is to give the wood time to absorb the glue's not just sit on the surface and as airscool mentioned epoxy is one of the few void filling glues their is and it has strength in the void l as well as at the wood joint. Teak is an oily wood but epoxy and resoureceinal ( kind of a purple liquid and a casein  powder glue mixed by both weight and volume both 2 part glues  the 2 glues used for joining teak , out marine repairs were a lot of clear oak lumber, as well as teak ,PS the test for if a glue is water proof  is to boil the glue joint after the proper dry time for 24 hrs. if it holds together it passes the test for water proof glue and can be used below the water line on marine applications . howie ((( if it cures too fast the joint will not be as good as a slow cure joint.)))

[airiscool]

Howie,
".......Teak is an oily wood but epoxy and resoureceinal .........."

True, but Teak is one of the least oily of what are considered "Oily tropical woods". I mentioned the problem with oils and epoxies  because some woodworkers use oilier woods as inlays, or gun stock end caps, and assume epoxy will work on those. Oiler woods such as Ebony, or Lignum Vitae.

Something I learned from a Chemical Engineer when Miracle Adheasives was still on Long Island, is that slow cure epoxies  only reach about 60% strength in 24 hours. Enough cure to take clamps off, but if the joints are put under stress right after removing the clamps there can be joint creep. It takes about 7 days (depending on shop temps), for slow cure marine grade epoxies to reach 100% cure.

Easy test is if you can make a mark by pressing a thunb nail  into the left-over mixed epoxy. When you can't, the epoxy is fully cured and there's no risk of joint creep if the joint is to be put under load.

Also from that same Chem Eng,  you can vary the ratio of a 50/50 slow cure epoxy to no more than 40/60, or 60/40 and it will  change the resiliency, or strength. Oddly, the opposite of what you'd expect, by adding more hardner, the joint is a bit weaker, but more flexable. By adding less hardner, the joint is stronger, but less flexable.

Paul.

[Timmyj1959@yahoo.com]

The new urathane glues,,,,, IMO USELESS!! They expand,,,,, NASTY to cleal up after,,,, require "wetting" of the wood surfaces?????? I have tried them,,,, MANY failed joints. Epoxy IMO is the way to go. I have also built MANY boats in my time & have quite the background with marine epoxy & polyester resins (Commonly refered to as fiberglass). Epoxy for the record Folks requires NO clamping preasure,,, it is a gap filling adhesive. Now,,,,, a point was made above I will address. "Glue Starved Joints" are not good. It is best to "Prime" both surfaces several times within the time frame of your cure time. End grain will soak it up fast. Cure times???? Got news for Ya,,,,, you mix it right & 5 min epoxy is just as durable as the slow stuff. I know,,,,,,, I have used Mass (Dont Like),,,, Systems 3 (Like) & West (Like). Not gonna argue about epoxy,,,, been using it for MANY years,,,,, NEVER have I had a "Call Back" on a boat or a gunstock. Just sayin,,,,,,,,,, Timbo.

[larspawn]

Timmy,

I'm seeing the light about poly glues.  I just did a cabinet and had to remember to wipe down the corners with acetone.  Also, my fingers are still a bit sticky and I get to go to work tomorrow with black stains on my fingers from all the crap that stuck to the glue.  

I've never really used epoxy and think I'm going to try that on my next project.

Thanks again to you and Howie for sharing your wisdom once again!

Andy

[howie1a]

Andy if you get epoxy on your fingers it will clean off with alcohol l before it dries howie

[Timmyj1959@yahoo.com]

howie1a - 3/1/2010 8:31 AM Andy if you get epoxy on your fingers it will clean off with alcohol l before it dries howie

Another cool trick,,, epoxy will also clean up with simple white vinigar before it cures!! Timbo.