Proposed new guide system

[kiwi]

Hi.....Had this idea for a while....
To remove all/most steel to steel contact in side a gun.

To make new guide & tophat undersize 10mm dia?.
out of 350mpa steel..About half way between mild & high tensile
steel...mild = 250mpa --- high tensile =500plus mpa
then press a peice of nylon bar over them and machine
them to the finished size with a collaur at the end for the
spring to seat against....the spring will be oparating on a nylon sleeve
with a steel disc/washer between the spring and nylon to stop
the spring bedding into the nylon then put a nylon
 disc between the end of the top hat &  piston..and do the same to the
rear guide.... I am hoping it wil make the fireing cycle smooth
and remove some of the fireing cycle noise. As a lot of the noise
comes from the steel to steel contact.
The nylon I will use is "Tyvar"..a self lubecateing PTFE it
has a  high oil content and is VERY low friction.

Any ideas...or anything I have over looked ????

Just have to deside whitch gun to start with...the Kral
needs a relube spring twang has returned so it mite be the
one

[fixx]

works great. believe me.

[Gene_SC]

Peter, good idea but I have all ready beat you to it..:)  Ask Ed aka Shadow how quiet his TF-59 shoots...:) I worked on the same project last year and it works out great. This does reduce spring to metal noise. Even though when a spring is lubed and inserted in the bare metal piston you still get some noise but with a delrin sleeve insert it works out fantastic. I have done this on two different styles of pistons and I am working on a third modification as we speak. All you need is a good lathe, mill and a bit of common sense..:)

Ed has told me that even when he cocks it there is little or no noise except the seer engaging. Also told me that he can make a 20 to 30 yard kill and if there is another nutter around they don't even here it..:) Keep working on it Peter and you will enjoy the fruits of your labor..:)  Also ask Randall aka Johnny Quest about his B-20 .177 and he will tell you right off that it is smooth and quiet.

[yel01z06]

tivar is really slippery when you machine it the last little bit you have to take off is a pain make your last cut counts

[Gene_SC]

Well  I felt that Delrin was a good tough plastic to use. I have a good source and am constantly buying all different sizes for making spring guides and other projects. It is allot easier to machine than most plastics. Certain materials work best for certain projects.

[yel01z06]

the Tivar actually works really well the problem is not machining it but if you get down and need to take like .001 off it good luck it is so slick that the tool just rolls of of it but when you take a decent bite out of it is similar to delrin but the stuff is just slick i  mean a file even rolls off of it

[kiwi]

Yes I know..we use a lot of it in sheet form...to line shoots on the
machines we build at work....we have found you can reduce the
shoot angle by 10/12 deg and still retaine the same flow rate...
I have machined it .... yes the last cut has to be as big as possable.
If you do need take a small cut...Yer can set the tool to cut below
centre not the best finish but it works.

[shadow]

Peter the TF59 from my buddy Gene is smooth and ultra quiet, had me worried at first because of how quiet it was.:) Gene did some fantastic work on this little shooter and she doesn't even alarm the critters when I shoot her. I'm still impressed when I cock and shoot it, my blow gun is louder then this shooter hehehe. Ed

[Graham]

These are the rear guide and top hat I have in my HW35, they work really smooth and quiet.

http://www.gunspares.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=24216&cat=Weihrauch+HW35+

[RedFeather]

I've been wondering if you couldn't go a bit the other way?  Would it be possible to reduced spring/piston size and sleeve the tube with something like that?  Granted, you would probably give up something in way of fps, but, if you have an old gun with a large compression tube, you might be able to use a bit heavier (load) spring intended for something else.  Or will a moly'd piston have just as much lubricity?

Ideas like this (not meaning mine) are great because they are things the manufacturers can't afford to pursue, especially these days.

[Graham]

I have discovered this stuff. It's dry moly that you spray on, and once the carrier spirit has evapourated, it leaves piston or cylinder walls coated in dry moly. Brilliant stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Molyslip-RAM-Air-Drying-Film-of-Mos2-lubricating-paint_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ120341223558

[RedFeather]

I wonder if that is the same thing as Brownell's Action Magic (or whatever they call it) dry treatment for triggers and semi-auto sliding parts?

[kiwi]

that is a interesting idea....theres usaly enough
clearance between the piston & tube....just need a smaller seal