A question about a few .22 air rifles

[hyounker]

Did you find it very difficult to cock out of the box?  Or after your home tune?

Have you chronied it?

Thanks,

[daveshoot]

I have to say that I just ran into a "bad" RS2, so while I love the one I own, they do merit close examination. Recommended one to a colleague getting interested in critter control. This was the dual caliber version. The barrel would not tighten properly and wiggled even with the set screw reefed down.

I think this may have been something simple but for a new gun and a new gunner, it was more than he wanted to mess with.

I was counseling a MM B26 now that interest and budget are up a little bit. My own SS1000 .177 is a great gun, so my only point is there are good ones and bad ones (like anything else) so make sure your source has a liberal return policy. Walmart definitely does.

[bearded_spock]

I can second what MIKEI says - I also got a dual caliber Beeman RS2 from Walmart, did a home tune on it (just a lube and polish job really) and now its an excellent shooter. Gained about 20% more power after cleaning out the Chinese gunk and using the proper lubes as well. Mine wasn't particularly bad out of the box - cocking was smooth enough (although I did have the sore shoulder just because I wasn't used to the cocking action), and the trigger was as good or better than many of my powder-burners. It had a little vibration and twang but nothing unpleasant. The only reason I tuned it was to try and get more power out of it - the improved firing cycle was just an unintended (but welcome) consequence, I wasn't at all unhappy with it before. Truthfully, being my first springer, it wasn't until after the tune that I realized that it had any rough characteristics at all. The Walmart Beeman isn't bad out of the box (at least the RS2 model I have wasn't) but with a little TCL it can be a really nice shooter.

[70GTvert]

hyounker - 1/19/2009  8:10 PM

Those numbers are pretty impressive. I dont want you to think I don't believe or trust your word, John, but I would like to hear from others as well.

I think I'll go to Wal-Mart and fondle one!  That's a big advantage over the Panther and B26.  I can't hold either of those first!

One thing I cannot do at Wal-Mart is cock the gun.  Anything I should know about that, i.e. excessively difficult to cock?

Thanks for your help.

 First, this is not meant to sound stern, sometimes writing can come across that way.
I live near Kent State Ohio. I have a Chrony and a large back yard where I can shoot, and do, at 60 yards, hitting within the 2" ends of pop cans, or, er beer cans (AFTER I enjoy them). ANYONE who wishes to confirm how well my air rifles shoot and have the ability to stop on by, please, feel free to, even use the chrony for your own.

Now, just as an aside, please keep in mind that there are a few dealers who are on this forum. I am not. I do not disagree that they hawk the virtue of their bread and butter, and I sure do not doubt that they work as described, but I like to show the other side of things. To tell the truth, I passed on a B-26 since the only ones I have heard about working well are those tuned by someone or another, often one of those noted above. Other forums have plenty of negative on the same rifle, so you see, it is a matter of the "crowd" your with. At least this forum does not ban you for showing your belief in variety.

Check reviews on the TF-89 and the other versions of this gun, Even the RS1 different only due to the bad trigger, has a lot going for it, but I like an adjustable trigger. I don't mind the cocking force. Just take full advantage of the barrel and grip it at the end, and DON"T cut it down, as, although I understand it can be done and not hurt accuracy, it will also reduce your mechanical advantage and increase cocking effort.

Also, if you see some of my other posts, I had to work on my neighbors a little as out of the box I had to replace the seal, but that was easy, took about 30 minutes, and fixed his problem. So,  IS there a gamble in an un-tuned gun, yes, no mater what the brand SOMETHING could be wrong, whereas a tuned rifle has most likely has any small issues already corrected.

IF you not comfortable with the possibility of some minor work, and keep in mind, you can have a gem right out of the box, pass, go with those tuned or higher $ options. If a little tear-down and caressing is within your scope, you will have something here that would cost you hundreds more to compare to.

[70GTvert]

Did you see his gun Dave? That would require a lot more obvious problem, such as an egg shape breach, to do what you described. More likely he lacked the strength to tighten down the set screw and or did not use loctite.That is not a fault of the gun.  The design of the set screw can do nothing but achieve tightening the barrel, it is a clamp, and unless the ends of the breech had been reamed out where the barrel inserts and where the o-ring is, it is likely a jarring loose issue. (even then, it should still be able to be tightened, but which way it would point would be in question). How long it stays tight is open to discussion. What I do know is that pre lubed, my .177 needed loctite on the set screw to keep it from coming loose after a 3 or 4 shots (and the results would be just what you described)  but the .22 was always smoother acting and needed no additional assistance to stay tight.

[WVscott]

In the panther about 25 fps, but also gained a nicer firing cycle and better spring.  In the B26 it shot about the same velocity, but again, a nicer firing cycle.  I'd rather have the calmer, smoother firing cycle than a little more power.  You can easily get more power by spacing up the spring and sizing the seal to a less snug fit, but the firing cycle will become more pronounced.  If you're looking for more power, step up to a more powerful rifle platform, i.e., a R1 or RWS 350, etc.  The disadvantage to this is that they are bigger and usually heavier guns.  I wouldn't recommend the walther falcon hunter, especially if you're new to springers.  I had one and sold it.  Sure it was putting out about 28 fpe in .25 caliber, but I couldn't hit anything with it consistently.  And it's not nearly as well made as the B26 or the panther.  650-700 fps or so is perfect for squirrels...you won't kill them any deader with 800+ fps, but I bet you'll miss/wound a lot more.  
       hth, Scott

[daveshoot]

I saw it but not really for a close examination. The decision was already made (to return it)and I assumed it was something simple, andprobably correctible. It was the .177 barrel, as a matter of fact. The guy was a casual shooter, not a hobbyist, and really did just want to pick one up and start practicing after plunking down $150. Now he wants to try something different.

I am a big fan of the AR1000/RS2 series or whatever we call them and as stated, really like mine. I certainly don't intend it as aslam against the product line, only a caution that any new product needs a good checkout. The front sight flew off my R7 this weekend, and as we all know this is impossible on a rifle with Teutonic quality etc. Reckoneven Germans needsome loc-tite, from time to time!

[lil'feeby]

any chrony numbers on the rs2 anyone?

[davee1]

My RS2 gets 687fps with .22 CPDomes. One other record of 700fps with .22 superdomes. Problem with Barrel Setscrew loosening, which I loctited. Very accurate, beeutiful stock, and nice trigger. Breech seal *must* be shimmed for those numbers. Recommend Panther 34 instead...probably very close in accuracy and no barrel screw problems.

[daveshoot]

My SS1000 was getting in the 900s in .177 with CPHPs. I am at work but have some actual chrony strings at home.

To be fair, that incident aboveis the only time I have heard of the barrel screw problem. There are many owners of RS2 clones here, including me, who don't have that problem (I don't have the switch barrel rig).

These are generalizations, but:

The Panther is betterquality out of the box in most regards, but is going to run $60 or somore than an RS2, andmay have the "drooper" barrel feature, or issue, depending on how you look at it. I think it would shoot and cock more smoothly on average, but it won't be quite as fast as an RS2. It will be fast enough and probably a little more accurate.

In all honesty I slightly prefer my RWS34 Panther to my B26 as a hunter, and the B26 to my SS1000 (the only .177). I likeall of them and they are all good enough for squirrels. None of them have been tuned. All ofthem are scoped. They are all fairly pleasant to shoot and carry, with great to decent triggers.

[bearded_spock]

Pre-tune (out of the box) I got 850's w/ CPHP in .177 and 670 w/ the same in .22

Post-tune I get 940 w/ CPHP in .177 and I haven't tested the .22 yet

Other pellets slightly higher or lower but power levels are consistent in .177 at 15 - 16 ftlbs

[hyounker]

If you got the same increase (in percentages, about 9%) on the .22 side, that would push the CPHP to 730fps and 17fpe!

Thanks for the info.

[hyounker]

How do you shim a breach seal?  Remember, you're talking to a rookie here!

Shimming the seal is all you have done?  Any tuning work?

Any pictures?

Thanks,

[hyounker]

Dave,

Of the three, which would you prefer to hand to a 12 year old boy?  He's a good shot with a deer rifle and rimfire and absorbs anything you tell him.  He can learn to shoot anything.  I also have an 8 year old, but I don't think any of these will be "easy" for him.

Thanks,

[RCnMo]

Wow, this thread is getting long. I have all three. A B26 in .177, a Panther in .177 and a TF 89 (a variant of an AR1000, Norica..blah blah) in .22.  My B26 has the lightest of all the triggers, Panther is a close second. The TF89 is a hard hitter. It spits 14.3g premiers out at 760fps. It shot them faster with the original junk seal.  I have given all of them tunes with guides, tophats and seals. All of them are very accurate out to 40 yards. All of them are capable of killing squirrels. The B26 is the most compact and easy to carry of the three. The Panther and the TF are about as long as each other. The TF89 is probably the heaviest. It is the hardest one to cock, but not impossible. If I were going to hand a 12 year old one of these rifles, the first one would be the B 26. It's easiest to cock and shoulder. It balances better than the RWS and it's lighter than the TF89.