Daisy Powerline 953

[Fatman]

Hi:

Questions about the Daisy Powerline 953:

What pellets do they typically like.  I'm on a limited budget and don't want to order a million different pellets to get some that shoot well.  I know that each gun/barrel is different but I'm sure that most clubs bulk order pellets that work well in the majority of their guns (Wather barrels though).  The 953 barrel is not a Walther but the stock Daisy one.  

The cheap Walmart Daisys shoot OK and may be adequate at my present level, but would like to know that the size of the groups are completely my fault and not made worse by the barrel/pellets.  I tried Gamo match but they seem to have trouble chambering.  Seems like they balk entering the chamber/rifleing.  I can't get Crossmans locally anymore and didnt have a chance to try them when I could.

I may eventually upgrade to the Walther barrel from daisy, but funds are short right now.  I'm using the 853 rear sight and the 753 front which seem to work well.  The 853 rear sight is a good one because it is precise and repeatable.  The 753 front sight is very good, much better than the 853's which seem sloppy to me.  I  don't care for the heavier 853 barrel weight either.  I find it too heavy.

The barrel has had the crown polished as posted on the forum.  I also polished out some dark spots in the bore with JB.  I've tried kratex on the pellets and other than keeping the bore really shiny can't discerne any difference.

I also did the Pilkington trigger tune which helped a lot.  It now breaks like glass with no discernable slack or overtravel.  Still passes the bump test and does not self fire when pumped with the action cocked.  I also removed all of the pellet clip advance mechanism parts which made cocking smoother and easier.  I only shoot single shot with the loading tray insert in orderto eliminate the possiblity of damaged pellets by any missalignment from the clip.

Would like to get an inexpensive adjustable but plate similar to the old 753's, but Daisy no longer has them available.  Archer seems to be perpetully out of the inexpensive one on their website....any ideas?  Anyone tried adding a thin (or thick) offset spacer to reposition the stock but pad lower?  Any thoughts on how you could make it adjustable as well?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers,
Fatman

[Fatman]

Hi:

May have answered my own question.  Did a line by line search over on "Target Talk".  Searched both the General and Youth Program forums and found pellet recommendations by an experienced coach.

Seems their club uses Gecos (now Hobbies) in all their Daisys until they get serious and then switch to Vogels.  Official clubs can bulk order the Vogels (Merlins) and get a real discount making them an affordable choice for competition.  

Checked the price for both the Vogels and Gecos and the Vogels are way too rich for my blood ( skill level and wallet)  The Gecos seem doable
when I can scrape up the cash for a decent size order.  Shipping is always the killer when you have to mail order.

Hope this helps anyone trying to do the 10 meter thing on the cheap with a 953 as I am.

Cheers,
Fatman

[Magnum]

Pyramid had a 5 percent off and free shipping ...I would be looking for a 10percent off coming up may help:)

[Fatman]

Hi Magnum:

Thanks for the info.  

Cheers,
Fatman

[ac12basis]

When I am shooting for score, I shoot Vogel SPORT in my 953.  This is the cheaper of the Vogel line, also called their training pellet.
When I am just plinking or casual target shooting with the 953 (or any of my starter/trainer rifles), I use the less expensive Daisy or Crossman pellets that I picked up at Walmart and Pyramid.  I just do a quick inspection of the pellet before I load, and if the pellet is distorted or damaged, I just put it aside.  From my casual shooting, you can easily see the pellets that that will mess up at 10 meters.  And since you are not into serious competition, you don't need to spend the $ for match grade pellets.  

Since it sounds like you will be doing most of your shooting at 10 meters, I recommend you get a carton/tin of Daisy or Crossman wadcutter pellet, and shoot a few targets off a rest.  Use both a front and rear rest, to eliminate your wobble.  The rested position will be MANY MANY times steadier than you or me in the standing position, so it is good enough, you don't need a machine rest (which won't work for a SSP anyway).  Put a scope on the rifle for this test, so you can aim more precisely.  If you can keep a reasonably TIGHT group with that pellet, that is good enough.

Here is a hint:  If you shoot groups, adjust the scope so the pellets hit BELOW where you are aiming.  
The reason for this is, once you shoot out your aiming point, you are just guessing at your aim for the remainder of the shots.  This method preserves your aiming point for all shots in the group.

After you shoot standing for a while, you may want that heavier 853 barrel weight.

About the butt pad.  IF you also want a longer LoP, you might be in luck.  
Remove the butt pad.  Get a scrap piece of 2x2 lumber.  Cut the 2x2 a few inches longer than the butt pad.  Drill the 2x2 so you can screw it into the stock with it flush at the top.  Screw the butt pad to the 2x2 at whatever height you want.  You now have the LoP lenghtened by 1-1/2 inches (the finished dimension of a 2x2), and a lower butt pad.  This may not be competition legal, but its CHEAP, and for casual use at home, who cares.

gud luk

[Fatman]

Hi ac12basis:

Thanks for your input.  Shooting from a rest with a scope is just the ticket for pellet selection. I Keep meaning to do that, but don't have anything that's easy to set up.  Will figure something out.  Hopefully the cheap Daisys will do all I need.  They get a bad rap on the forums but the ones I get now seem uniform and there's not a lot debris left in the tin.  

I have an 853 muzzel weight/sight and in addition to feeling too heavy, it seems pretty crude.  It's a stamped one piece unit and the sight picture always seemed sloppy.  When I removed it to change over to the 753 sight I noticed that the insert was loose.  As it's held in by spring pressure, I never even considered that it could be loose.  Did some minor metal work on the housing but no luck.  Finally bent the insert tabs a tad and that did it.  Still not a precise fit but at least it can't rattel around anymore.

Your point about going with a heavier muzzel weight is well taken.  My problem is that to keep from bending my neck way over to get a good sight picture, I shoot with the butt very high on my shoulder, just sort of notched in at the very top.  As the butt just sort of rests there, the heavier muzzel weight doesn't seem to work for me.

Just re-read "Releasing the Shot" on the Nygord site.  What a great site, good information from someone who had been there and done that.  Even though he shot pistol, the information is still relavent.  Grateful that the site is still with us even though he is not.  A post humus thanks to the man.

Got me thinking .....maybe I've set the trigger too short and a tad more movement might improve things.  Hmmm...worth a try.  That's the great thing about this game - you never stop learning.

Thanks again for the info.

Cheers,
Fatman

[Gene_SC]

Great input on this thread guys. I learned a couple things this morning by reading your post backs. Thanks for your contribution guys. Exactly what the GTA is all about..:)

[ac12basis]

Fatman
What you mention about the trigger is the classic American crisp like a glass rod breaking vs the "rolling" trigger.  The rolling trigger is where there is trigger movement before the sear releases, some call it creep.  I can't say one is better than the other, but I am now using the rolling trigger on my match AP and AR.  IMHO it is simply getting used to whichever trigger you decide to use, give it enough time for your finger to get used to it.

I understand what you are saying about the 853 front sight.  I do recall a coach on TargetTalk recommeding the 753 front sight, maybe for just that reason.
But since I got the Gamo front/rear diopter sight set from Pyramid, and the front sight will fit onto the dovetail on the 953s muzzle weight, I don't need to get the 753 front sight.

I will give you something else to try.  Cant the rifle over to the side, so you can look thru the sight w/o tilting your head over the stock.  
By keeping your head upright, this improves your ability to stay balanced, and thus reduces your wobble.  The sights on my match AR is setup to be shot with the rifle canted over to the left.  The hard thing to do is to duplicate the cant angle reliably each time.  And BTW, when you adjust the sights, you have to take the cant into account, it is no longer straight up/down left/right, the adjustment axis (vertical and horizontal) are now titled over by the amount you cant the rifle.

Too bad match sight risers are so expensive, even on eBay.  With the risers you can raise the sights higher to reduce the amount you have to bend your neck.  A set of target sight risers can cost more than the 953 rifle.
Here is an affordable option, BUT the front sight will require cutting and modifying the riser to make it shorter so it will fit.
http://www.straightshooters.com/bsquare/b2170122pc11mmto11mmbase.html

[Fatman]

Hi at12basis:

Thanks for all of your input.  Sounds like you've been there and done that.  Gonna give it a try.  Seems the 10 meter offhand game is a contunual learning process.  Good thing as it keeps it from becoming boring.  Just got an MEC catalog (freebie) and can't believe all of the goodies the real 10 meter precision (National and Olympic) guys play with.  German precision plus a weak dollar puts this stuff into orbit pricewise.  

I find it difficult to comprehend how Olmypic shooters can place so many shots in the same spot with so little deviation.  I find it amazing that even the guns can produce that level of precision.  I am equally amazed by the precision of GPS and the level of definition achieved by satellite (spy) imaging.  Maybe I'm just easily amazed!

By the way.  I was just given one of the Daisy 753 diopter sights by a fellow shooter who said it was junk.  It certainly had problems, but not insurmountable.  On disassembly, I found the adjustment screw threads to be poorly cut and rough and quite a bit of fine metal debris.   I also noticed that the e-clip on the bottom of the vertical adjustment shaft would rotate half way and bind on the sheet metal housing cover.  This would make adjustment screw feel tight on half of its rotation, it would then slip around and repeat the problem again.  After cleaning everything up, filing off a rought edge on the horizontal carrier casting that was binding (as indicated by scraped paint) and filing the housing cover to clear the e-clip,  I lubed it with a moly/30 wt mixture, ran the adjustment screws in and out several times, reassembeled everything and hey presto it adjusts smoothly.  The apeture does not seem to have any slop.  It feels stable and doesn't rock when grasp throughout the adjustment range.  Guess I just got lucky.  The castings and machine work on this example certainly leave a lot to be desired, but hey, it works and the price was right.  Sometimes you just get lucky!

Whoa, I've got way too much time on my hands!

Thanks again for you help.

Cheers
Fatman

[ac12basis]

FM
Yeah 10m precision AR can get REAL expensive if you get into serious competition.  One of those items is the shooting "outfit" (jacket, pants,and boots).  If you gain or loose any significant amount of weight, you gotta buy another outfit $$$.

That level of accuracy is why I do NOT like the idea of everyone shooting the international 10m AR target.  That is a VERY intimidating target for a new shooter.  There should be an easier target that the new shooters and juniors shoot, before graduating to the international 10m AR target.  The NRA has an easier 25ft target TQ-5, but I have never seen it in shops, you have to order it.  
the single bull  http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=534242  
and the 5 bull  http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=358684

Good deal on the 753 rear sight.