300S offered to me

[TAJ45]

He initially billed it as a ssp but my research sez it is a springer...........right?  His price is in line with what I've seen on Target Talk / Pilkguns.  He used it quite a bit after buying it new.  Mainly winter indoor use to keep his edge for High Power - a Marine, double Distinguished.

So, even though 98% condition, I'm thinking it could probably use a tune/lube etc after these 24years of existence.........Opinions please.

[daved]

Yes, the 300S is a springer, it has a sliding action similar to the Diana 54 to make it recoilless.  Unlike most of the current crop of springers, it doesn't use a synthetic parachute seal, instead, it has a ring similar to the compression rings in a car engine.  I do know there are a couple of seals, but if you can run it over a chrony, that will tell the tale.  If it's shooting in the mid 500's its good, if it hits the low 600's, it's really good.  

I envy you, I've developed a serious jones for a vintage match rifle, and the 300S is 1 of 2 at the top of my short list.  There's a lot of good info on these rifles on the web, just google it.  I even remember seeing a pictorial on tearing one down recently.  It's fairly complicated, but someone reasonably mechanical shouldn't have a lot of trouble.  I believe seals are available from Macarri.  Keep us posted, and how about some pics?  Later.

Dave

[ac12basis]

A "tune" is not necessary.
However after 24 years it would benefit from a cleaning and relube.  The old lube is probably dried out/gummy.  Although I am surprised at how well these old rifles stand up to time w/o a relube.

Find out what is the color of the breach seal.  If it is white/cream, that is the OLD seal, which turns brittle over time.  Because the piston bumper is made of the same material, if it breaks up, the piston will slam into the front of the cylinder...NOT GOOD.  The bumper should be replaced with the newer blue bumper.  And this would be done at the same time a relube.

Depending on where you live, there are several places that can relube the 300.
West coast; Beaman, Randy Bimrose, David Slade
East coast; Pilkingtons
You can also ask on TargetTalk.  They would know the various gunsmiths.  Too bad Neal Johnson (in Colorado) retired.

One comment on shooting it.  As opposed to the "artillery hold" the 300 is meant to be held snugly/tightly into your shoulder.  This is so the recoilless mechanism will work properly.  If the sledge (upper receiver and barrel) does not release and slide smoothly when you fire, then you do need a cleaning and relube.

Finally, if you scope the rifle, PLEASE do NOT loose the rear sight.  There have been way too many target rifles which were scoped and the rear sight lost.  This can be a difficult to find and EXPENSIVE replacement if the next owner wants to shoot with a match diopter sight rather than a scope.

Let us know if you buy it.

[TAJ45]

AC......OK, remember you're dealing with a very new guy when it comes to pellet flingers.  With that in mind, could you tell me how to check the color of the breach seal.  Not having the rifle in hand, I can't give it the once over twice and possibly see the obvious sticking out like a sore thumb.

Is it hanging out in the wide open spaces, relatively speaking?

Yeah, I've "lost" the rear sight of the R9.  Now, it hasn't gone out the door, just that it is around here somewhere...............iykwim.

[Jaymo]

I was wanting to buy a 300S that a local pawn shop had. They wanted $700.00 for it and wouldn't come off the price because they had dry fired it repeatedly, broken it, and had to have it repaired. They thought I should pay for their stupidity. On top of that, they wouldn't let me test fire it to make sure it had been fixed and fixed right.
Some poor sucker ended up buying it off gunbroker.

[TAJ45]

Hoo boy, a true case of caveat emptor, if I ever heard one.

[spysir]

"East Coast" but that's okay, Daivd Slade and Pilkingtons are both in TN ( also home to the one of the fienest FT clubs in the US).  Both mentioned would be good for a clean and lube which is all it should need if not abused ever. Something around $500 for a decent one more if "minty".

 John

[ac12basis]

I thought Dave was in Calif?

oops reread the prior post.  Yes a MINT one would be quite a bit more than $500.  $400-500 for one in decent shape is about market.

[ac12basis]

When you get it in your hand, release the cocking arm and pull the cocking arm all the way to the rear till it locks.  Look down into the loading port.  To the front of the loading port you will see the breech, where you load the pellet.  To the rear of the loading port will be a projection with either a white/cream plastic seal or a blue one.  The blue is the later seal.  Here is the problem with this method of checking the seal, the breach seal is easy to get to, so the breach seal could have been replaced w/o replacing the piston bumper which is inside the cylinder (requires a tear down to get to).  

But if the guy you are buying it from is the original owner, he would know what service was done and not done to the rifle.  He should be able to tell you the color of the breech seal and if he replaced it or not, and if he had the rifle serviced or not.

He he,  I scoped my R7 over 20 years ago and lost the rear sight as well.  I now have a box that I put all parts that I remove from any of my air guns.

On the 300, I ALWAYS hold the cocking arm when I put my fingers into the loading port to load the pellet.  If the holding mechanism fails, I don't want my fingers crushed.  
This is no different than when I load a breakbarrel spring rifle.  I ALWAYS hold the muzzle, so if the holding mechanism fails the barrel won't go flying up to crush my finger.

[TAJ45]

You all have been most helpful and it is really appreciated.  Ahhhh, tapping into a depth of knowledge that would require years and maybe a finger.
Priceless.  May just have to give this gent a call.  He is not very interested in starting shooting again.  As he said, I shot every day, all day for quite a while.......

[ac12basis]

TAJ
About the CLA (clean lube adjust) is you can expect to pay $100-150 + parts + shipping both ways.   So the cost can easily run upwards of $200.
When you ship it, or have it shipped to you, remove the action from the stock and pack both very well.  The reason for removing the action (barrel + receiver) from the stock is, if the box is dropped on its end, the metal action has significant mass and could break the pistol grip.  This is a common problem with match rifles when shipped (freight or air baggage).

[daved]

Hey, Tom, if you get it and decide it's really not for you, drop me a line.  Like I said, I've been jonesing for one of these for awhile :-).  Later.

Dave

[TAJ45]

Lemme aask this question to you that are in the know.  Would a Walther LGR Universal for near same $$ be a better buy?  This of course with conditions being very close, say 95% or better for each.  What little time I've had to research, it seems the LGR could be up to 10 yrs older......or is my info/memory wrong?

[daved]

Hopefully Tommy will respond, he has a Walther.  I'm pretty sure the 300S predates the LGR, although, due to the long production span of the 300 there is some overlap.  The LGR IS an SSP, so is inherently recoilless.  That also makes it a simpler rifle mechanically.  I believe it was the first of the SSP match rifles, but my memory could be faulty on that.  Not sure about value comparisons but I think they are similar, all else being equal.

You know, the best source of info on the vintage match rifles is a guy named Jim Edmondson, over on the Yellow Forum.  I'm sure if you posted your questions over there, addressed to him, he'd be able to give you detailed info.

Okay, now this airgun thing being a recognized addiction, the proper answer in this type of quandary is always the same: BUY BOTH :-)!  Later.

Dave

[ac12basis]

It depends on what YOU want.

Do you want for nostalgia?  
The 300 is one of the big 3 last spring match rifles.  
Example: personally I want to have each of the big 3 spring match rifles (FWB-300, Anchutz LG-380, Diana 75), then I would look at other rifles.

Do you want if purely for 10m match shooting?
The LGR was first of the SSP match rifles.  The LGR being a SSP is technically superior to the 300 which is spring.  Without the spring and the moving mass required to counter the spring and piston movement, the SSP were much easier to shoot more accurately.  And you don't have the spring and piston maintenance to deal with.  
That said the LGR had a FORWARD cocking motion, which is more difficult to do than a rearward cocking motion that the later SSP rifles (and the FWB-300) use.  
Since the LGR you are looking at is a "universal," that means it has an adjustable cheekpiece that raises for use with a scope.

As Daved said, the 300 had a LONG production run.  But based on what you said earlier, they would be close in age, with the LGR probably younger.

If you want it purely for 10m match shooting and you don't care about nostalgia, for the reasons I stated above...get the LGR.