Took the Plung, New NPSS

[airiscool]

Not just in Airguns!!!  Lubricants, and their proper use, are one of the most misunderstood and misused products out there.

I spent two days last summer helping a friend pull apart his antique car motor chasing the wrong symptoms. All because he took the advice of guys who know nothing about the proper lubricants to use in that application. He has been using the wrong oil in the motor and pulged it with sluge. It could have cost him many thousands of dollars.  

Another guy I know, an ex-race car driver, used very expensive race engine oil in his industrial sewing machine, dispite being told not to by folks who specialize in them. He destroyed the sewing machine within a few months of use because that oil is meant to be used in pressure fed systems. The sewing machine gets oiled  by capulary action. The high temperature adative that does the lurication settled out of the base stock and his sewing  machine "ran dry" with oil in it.  Now he's looking at over $1000.00 for a new machine.

It can be VERY expensive if you don't listen to folks who realy know their business !!!!


Paul

[CharlieDaTuna]

How right you are Paul. Before I retired from tuning airguns I would use as many as seven different lubes in an airgun when tuning depending on the gun. The Moly that I used for the last six years or so is made by DuPont and used in the AeroSpace industry in the space shuttle and the space station and very expensive. There just isn't anything better and expensive at $64.00 for 16 ounces. For that reason, it just isn't practicle for most people to use. That said though, the moly that JM sells is excellent for springer applications.

If a gun is properly lubed, it can go for years and years without needing to be lubed again. I have customers with guns out there that I tuned 8-10 years ago that have never had to be lubed again with the exception of external lubing like cocking pivot points, cocking slot and trigger pivot points. And they don't need to introduce any lube into the compression chamber either.

And to hear someone talk about the need for occasional lube in the compression chamber to keep the seal soft and pliable (with the exception of leather seals) and to keep it from drying out is just someone exposing their lack of knowledge and comprehension of not only airguns but lube and lube properties and seal composition. Synthetic seals in themselves never need lube.

[RedFeather]

What did he do, use high detergent motor oil in the engine? Sometimes the gunk inside those old motors (40's/50's) is th eonly thing keeping them from leaking all over the place.

[airiscool]

No just the oposite.

He took the view you just stated as fact from a bunch of guys standing around at a car show.  

 That "plugging affect " of non-detergent oils that you say stops leaks will also constrict and eventually plug the small holes such as those that feed the lifters, camshaft and the main bearings, rods, etc. Many older motors have very large surface area bearings so therefore they have very low oil pressure by modern standards, and they get left sitting for long periods of time. Both contribute to making ideal conditions for the build up of sluge. To make matters worse, there are  areas in motors that have moving parts but are not pressure fed with oil. They rely on oil vapor caused by splash, and gravity to get oil to them.

The problem started when these "shade tree experts" told him that using detergent oil in old cars was bad because all the old crude would come loose and plug up his motor. It's ironic because the truth is just the opposite.  Using detergent oil only loosens old sludge slowly and keeps it in suspension to be trapped in the filter, which many antiques before the early 60's don't have, or stay in suspension to be drained out at the next oil change.

Using non detergent oil in antique  internal combustion engines not only doesn't clean out the old sluge, but leaves new layers of sludge that will eventuually plug up critical parts of a motor...as his did !!!!!

What happened in his case....
Worn 1927 motor with alot of taper wear to the cylinder bores and goo-ed up rings. The motor lost all compression under load on hills because when the pistons heated up to normal max working temps, the rings stayed stuck at their smallest working diameter (the diameter at the bottom of the cylinders). When the pistons came up, the rings, now stuck, couldn't expend to take up for the cylinder's tapered wear and weren't able to seal where the pistons need to make compression. No compresson= no running !!!

The car owner is a well educated and successful Architect. We've know each other for many years. He knows that there are several knowlegable proffesionals in the Club that specialize in that make of car, yet he wanted to argue with me that these "experts" he ran into at a car show somehow know what they're talking about. He knows I've worked on that type motor proffesionally for over 25 years and teach maintainance of them.  Of course, not one of  those "shade tree experts"  ever took classes in, or works on these motors, or ever even picked up a phone to talk to an Oil Company Engineer to see what, and why, the recommended oil is for that application.

He also tried to argue with another club member and friend of mine, who is a long time FAA certified aircraft mechanic.  

And he's not the only one getting bad advice.  Like Bob and Gene have to do here, much of my tech class work time is spent correcting all the misinformation that gets spewed out at car shows.

Paul