NPSS Question

[mackeralboy]

I'm right there with most of you guys as far as the confusion with regards to the Trail NP, Trail NP Laminated, the NPSS, and Trail NP XL. Then you throw in the whole Benjamin and Remington thing. Don't qoute me on this, but this is what I've been able to figure out.

The Remington NPSS (ex Benjamin NPSS) is basically a Remington Genesis fitted out with new guts and a Nitro Short Stroke Piston.

The Benjamin NP and NP Laminated are basically the Remington NPSS with different stocks and possibly different scopes.

I have also heard that there could be a difference in the triggers between the Remington NPSS and Benjamin NP and NP laminated.

The Benjamin NP XL is a Benjamin Superstreak regutted and with a larger Nitro Piston than is in the Benjamin NP, NP laminated, and Remington NPSS.

I bought my Benjamin NPSS (now Remington NPSS) back in October in .22cal. I am impressed with the quality of build, wieght, and accuracy of this rifle. It is also very quiet, being quieter than my Gamo Whisper and only slightly louder than my Air Arms Prosport. I have taken ground squirrels shooting offhand out to 67 yards no problem. What the Nitro NPSS lacks in foot pounds of energy it more than makes up for with its accuracy.

Here are the numbers for my .22cal NPSS

Beeman H&N match 674.4fps 13.73fpe
Crosman Primiers   673.6fps 14.37fpe
JSB Jumbo Express 681.6fps 14.85fpe
JSB Jumbo              651.2fps 15.54fpe
JSB Jumbo Heavy  578.4fps 13.59fpe
RWS Superdome  663.0fps 13.96fpe
RWS Superpoint  667.4fps 14.24fpe

[Perry50]

mackeralboy - 2/21/2010  6:43 PM

The Benjamin NP and NP Laminated are basically the Remington NPSS with different stocks and possibly different scopes.

mackeralboy, I thought the same thing but what I suspected and CitySniper confirmed is that the Trail NP has a slightly larger nitro piston. How else would you explain the difference between your NPSS's 14 FPE and the 23 FPE that Crosman claims for the new Trail NP?

[mackeralboy]

Perry50, Like I said don't quote me...... That is interesting info about the Trail Np having a larger gas piston. As for numbers, FPS, FPE, I am skeptical of any manufacurers numbers these days as they all seem so blown out of proportion to what is the truth. At Pyramyd air they have the .22cal Remington NPSS (same as my gun) listed as shooting at 1000fps. That is 219fps faster than any pellet I have shot through my gun and could account for the increase in FPE. I can't imagine what they shot through the gun to get that reading. Maybe they chronied a cotton cleaning wad being shot out of it. LOL It really is unfortunate though that all of the manufacturers seem to be caught up in this make believe.

[Perry50]

Yea mackeralboy, I agree that the manufacturers all fudge their numbers but the Trail XL has proven to come close to matching the FPE Crosman claims for that gun. I wish they all would use the same weight pellets, say 14.3 CP's to measure the FPS of their guns.

[CitySniper]

if on the PA website looking at the remington npss.... slide your cursor over the 1000fps, and it will change to yellow and say "measured with 9.9 grain ammo"

that is super light for a .22 cal, that is lighter than the 11 grain hyper velocity pellets

[airiscool]

City,

"......."measured with 9.9 grain ammo"  .........."

That just happens to be the weight of a 22 cal Gamo Raptor PBA pellet. I wonder if, like Gamo does, that may be the commonly available pellet that Crosman is using to get their max speed numbers ? I haven't seen any other 22 cal pellet that weight.  

 The Craptor is very inaccurate in many guns, but it does come close to Gamo's advertised speed in my gas Whisper and right around some manufactorer's listed  max speeds in some test reviews I've read where it was one of the pellets tested.

My Whisper says 900 fps with PBA on the barrel and here at just over 1000 feet above sea level the Craptors did a top speed of 882 in my Whisper. Add 1 or 2 percent to compensate for the altitude and your darn close to 900fps.  Looking at the pellet speed numbers Ron posted so far with his newTrail  XL, I wouldn't be surprised if Craptors went somewhere around 1100fps in his gun.  Just don't expect to hit what your aiming at.  

And yes, it would be great if all the AG manufacturers used a standard, mid-weight pellet more like what will be used in the real world, but I doubt we'll see that except in independant reviews like Ron's and others.

Paul.

[airiscool]

mackeralboy,

Thinking maybe of getting one to have more power for hunting, I've been watching for any and all postings of fps numbers for 22 Crosman NPSS Nitros and comparing the numbers the owners have been posting to what the same pellets do in my Whisper. I want to see if it is worth getting, or stick with what I've got (before the Trail XL showed up). Most Nitros have been getting around 100 fps faster than what my gas Whisper does.

The numbers you've posted seem low compared to other 22 NPSS pellet speeds I've been seeing. In fact your Jumbo heavies, and Superdomes are going about 18-20 fps slower than they do in my Whisper.

Please don't take this as criticism, but you may want to check your gun over. I don't know if Crosman made changes during production, but yours seems it's not putting out what some other Nitros  are.  

Paul.

[7.62X51]

Here's my understanding...The Crosman NPSS , the rifle that started the Nitro family, was made but for a short time.  It has "Made in USA" stamped on the rifle. It is no longer available as a Crosman branded item but has been renamed the Remington NPSS.  According to Crosman the Original NPSS and the currently available Remington NPSS are the same item and apparently the Remington is still American made, hence the higher price when compared to the newer Benjamin Trail.  And speaking of the new Trail, according to Gaylord's SHOT show report the new Trail's are simply the Chinese made Super Streak with a gas ram; hence the $229 price.  From here on out the rest is my theory. We know the NP Trail's are just Chinese Super Streaks with gas rams but what of the XL's? I suspect the XL's are the same as the regular Trail NP's just with a stronger ram and with a longer barrel to take advantage of the more powerful ram and to make cocking the stronger ram easier.  I suspect that it is very easy to offer rifles with gas rams with varying degrees of power by simply varying the internal pressure of the gas.  Crosman did just that with the little mentioned Benjamin Legacy SE which is a .22 caliber 12 FPE version of the original NPSS/Remington.  So in summary I THINK this is what we know...

1. Crosman NPSS- American made, short production time.
2. Remington NPSS- American made, currently produced.
3. Benjamin Legacy SE- American made, reduced power version of the Original NPSS/Remington.
4. Benjamin Trail NP- Chinese made gas ram version of the Super Streak.
5. Benjamin Trail NP XL-??? Chinese made Super Streak with more powerful ram and longer barrel??? (not 100% certain on this)

All of the above may be wrong.  It may also be right!

[daveshoot]

Here's hoping Josh, or a similarly knowledgeable Crosman insider, will respond to Jeff's request and clear this up. Here is a peck of people who want to buy one and haven't placed an order due to model confusion.

Just a suggestion to Crosman, but with about 16 versions of NPSS technology, a comparison matrix with details suitable to serious buyers would seem to make sense. I know I will buy one of the danged things but even the know-it-all forums seem a little puzzled over all the model variations.

It is really going to be the "year of Crosman" and this is probably a good problem to have. The product launches are going faster than the sales information, it seems. From a marketing perspective, I would want a prospect to quickly size up the choices and hit that "Buy" button, rather than have him dither and risk some other brand catching his eye.

From a shooter's perspective, I want power-trigger-weight-size-sights-stock and other details lined up for all the models.

[longislandhunter]

Well, when I checked my email just a few minutes ago I had an email from a guy named Cameron from Crosman, here's a copy of the email..


Jeff,

The Trail series NPSS rifles are made to our specs in China. The Remington NPSS rifles are made here in Bloomfield, NY. There are a couple of different pistons used depending on the velocity of the rifle, but many parts are shared in these rifles.

Thank you for contacting Crosman Corporation.

Regards,

Cameron

 

So there you have it, straight from the horses mouth.  In my original email I explained to Crosman that there were quite a few members of our forum  interested in the rifle but that we were in doubt as to where the different models were made and whether the power plants were the same.  I just sent a reply back to Cameron thanking him for his quick response to my original email and for the information he provided.  

 

As for me.... having more "official"  information to work with now I think I'll just hold off for awhile and wait for reviews on the  "Trail" series rifles from "real shooters" before I push any buttons.  I've checked just about everywhere online I can for "real world" chrony numbers and they are very hard to find since the guns aren't really out there yet but I did find a couple of fps postings on the Trail XL 1100 that gave fps #'s in the low to medium 800 range with 14.3 pellets and that sounded pretty good to me, so if I push a button it'll probably be on an XL 1100 rifle.  But like I said, I'm just gonna wait awhile and do some more reading.

 

JEff

 

 

[airiscool]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting the Crosman e-mail reply.

"............As for me.... having more "official" information to work with now I think I'll just hold off for awhile and wait for reviews on the  "Trail" series rifles from "real shooters" before I push any buttons.  I've checked just about everywhere online I can for "real world" chrony numbers and they are very hard to find since the guns aren't really out there yet but I did find a couple of fps postings on the Trail XL 1100 that gave fps #'s in the low to medium 800 range with 14.3 pellets and that sounded pretty good to me, so if I push a button it'll probably be on an XL 1100 rifle.  But like I said, I'm just gonna wait awhile and do some more reading. ..........."

Exactly the  conclusion I came to also.

Considering how the Crosman NPSS was reviewed when it first came out, I'm surprised there haven't been any reviews of the Trail series, or at least the Trail XL by Paul C. or  Tom Gaylord yet ??

Paul.

[CitySniper]

http://www.americanairgunhunter.com/nitro_trail.html






review of trail XL

[Perry50]

Here is a quote from a guy named Mark from Crosman posted on the yellow forum:

"Okay guys. Here's the deal...

The Benjamin Trail NP XL series are the next generation Super Streaks. They have the bull barrel, Weaver style rails, sling mounts, a better feeling solid cast stamped steel trigger and the Nitro Piston technology. The other Benjamin Trail NP guns (the hardwood, laminated hardwood and all weather) are brand new guns with the Nitro Piston and a variety of other features.

We made some fit and finish improvements to the NPSS guns and felt that by putting the line under the Remington brand it would give the guns a better standing in the small game hunting category.

Hopefully that cleared a few things up.

- Mark "

It clears things up a little but, like Jeff said, I still want to see some real world numbers on the Trail NP before pressing the button.

[airiscool]

Darius,
Thanks for the link. that's what i was hoping to see more of by now.

Paul.

[airiscool]

One other differance I just noticed on Crosman's website, and is mentioned  in the link CitySniper just posted.

All the Benji Trail models come with a sling and mounts - the  Remington NPSS does not.

Paul