Crosman 1377 versus Benjamin HB22

[lillysdad621]

to be honest, the HB22 might be "all metal and wood", but the 1377 is a better all around gun. It is the final evolution to the HB and its derivatives. Shame they do not have the 1322 anymore... At 10 pumps (rarely need that) it shoots beeman crow mags at 540 fps. with the 1399 buttstock mine has taken squirrels and large birds at distances up to 20 yards. I also built a .22 version in carbine that with the flat piston may be pumped up to 30 times. That gives me 670 fps with crosman premiers. ( that one will do a squirrel at 45 yards no problem...)
Back to the HB. I bought mine second hand that was not shot in like 3 or 4 years. It took air for several shots and then Pfffft... no holding air. I didget some atf and worked it behind the plunger thorugh the opening you see in the pump, next to the "do not oil airhole" orifice. I used a good 20 drops. put 4. worked the pump. then again, and again. every time the gun felt like it wanted to hold the charge. the last time i put 4/5 dropsand then left it open, standing vertically between 2 books, all night. next day came home from the grind, went to get it and guess what? it held air! I have shot mine since thru my chrony and at 8 pumps with the 14,3 gr it shoots 416 fps average. good for birds and small pest ( rats) out to 15 yards. the open sights are ok, you just gotta learn to adjust them...
hope this helps.

[Perry50]

Bruce, I would do what Gabe did: put a few drops of 30 wt. non detergent motor oil in the slot just in front of the air hole. Work the oil in by pumping, and add some more if needed then let sit overnight.

This may expand and soften the seal and allow it to hold air.

The seal went  bad on my HB22 after my son lubed it with 3 in 1 oil. The detergent in the oil ruined the seal so I sent to Tim at MAC1 and he worked his magic on it and now it is one sweet pistola.

[airgunandy]

When you pump, does it make any noise? A sort of zippy farting sound? With the bolt closed, do you feel air at the muzzle when you pump? It could just be the O-ring on the front of the valve or it may be the exhaust valve not sealing. The oil will help.

No noise? When you open the pump can you tell if the rubber pump cup is still attached to the piston?

http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/BHB17A-EVP%20&%20PL.pdf

I have a 1377 with a 1322 barrel and bolt in it. If you get totally bummed with the HB not working, I'll trade ya.

[brucebotti]

I put a few drops of ATF last night and pumped it a bit to work it around.  The only sound it makes while pumping is mechanical noises.  This morning I was able to pump it up and it does hold pressure.  It is relatively easy to pump, but I can feel some resistance.  If I put a pellet in, it will fire, but it won't penetrate a plastic milk carton at about 15 feet.  At best, it will scuff the label a little.  

Should I try a bit more ATF?

Airgunandy....to answer your question, at full pump extension, I can see a metal piston with an O ring on it.  Is that the rubber pump cap that you are referring to?

Thanks again to all you guys.

Bruce

[airgunandy]

If you see some rubber and now it will pump, then the pump cup is still attached to the piston.

More questions...
When you shot the milk carton how many pumps did you have in the pistol? A full 8? I think healthy ones only do around 400 - 420fps on 8 pumps. If you're using wadcutters there may not be enough steam to push that big flat face through the plastic.

Try laying a tissue over the breach (with the bolt closed) and shoot it with several pumps in it. See if the tissue is blown any while shooting. That would be the bolt O-ring if the tissue moves.

Here's my best guess. There are two O-rings on the outside of the valve. One on the front and one on the back end. If the front one leaks the gun won't pump right. If the back one leaks less air blows out the barrel when the gun is fired. Purhaps there was a burr in the tube and these O-rings were scratched during assembly, or maybe the rings just dried out from lack of use. The ATF may have caused the front ring to swell enough to overcome the pumping problem (you probably should feel more resistance when you pump as the O-ring swells and is able to hold more pressure), but not enough ATF has gotten to the rear ring yet. The only way (short of a teardown) to get oil (or ATF)  to that ring is getting oil through the valve through pumping and then shooting. In time enough oil may get to that rear O-ring. If it is cut or scratched O-rings, eventually they will need to be replaced, but keeping them lubed will keep it shooting for awhile.

[brucebotti]

When I shot the milk carton, I used a full eight pumps.  I was using hollow points, so that could be the reason for it not penetrating the plastic jug.

I tried your tissue test on the breach and there was no movement of the tissue.

It's strange that it will pump up and fire fine sometimes, then on the next shot, there will be no resistance while pumping, and eight pumps won't generate enough force to push the pellet out the barrel.  I'll add a few more drops of ATF and see what happens.

Bruce

[pindog2000]

the 1377 can be modded very nicely i would get the 1377

[Perry50]

I just shot a gallon size milk jug filled with water using my HB22 loaded with a Crosman Premier hollow point pellet and it easily went through both sides.

Maybe after it sits a while after been soaked in ATF it will hold pressure.

[Toolmaker]

Benji HB22's are pretty easy to re-seal. I just re-sealed mine using this kit ( http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Benjamin_Sheridan_Repair_Kit_Fits_Some_Post_1995_Multi_Pumps_w_Cartridge_Valve/911 ). If you need any help just ask on the forum or PM me and I'm sure we can get your HB good as new.

[lillysdad621]

at eight pumps with daisy wadcutters it blew up a empty wine bottle at 15 yards. Mine shoots them at 408 fps avg. the hobbies will do in the 430s. keep working it. if it was gone it would not hold air or work (even if weakly) at all. you need to moisten the interiors to swell the seals and be able to hold more pressure. try working more oil into it. even if you need to rebuild it at the end, do not give up on it. Those are great pistols from a time gone now, when we appreciated things for their durability and their style. It was a big boys gun (most of us had BBguns...) and it still holds its own. the 1377 is like an accord... it will take you to work, well and reliably. but it looks the bollocks. The Hb... well that is more like a 60's malibu... it will take you to work... in style, everyday, but you still need to look after her...lol

[daveshoot]

Hey, my offer of $73 is still good!

Seriously, just trying to motivate you to stick with it and let us know what happens. As someone just said, if you got it this far, it's likely to come around.

[brucebotti]

Toolmaker,
Thanks for the heads-up / attachment.  I may take you up on that.  I have a question about the attachment.   Should I be able to see the big rubber cap when the forearm is cocked to its full extension?
Thanks again,
Bruce

[brucebotti]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.  Hopefully I'll have her up to par in no time
Bruce

[Toolmaker]

Youshouldsorta see it through the air hole below the slot. If you look "through" the hole as you pull the arm out you should see the metal piston with the rubber cup attached to the end.

[brucebotti]

It looks like I'll have to go the bebuild route.  Now I can barely get it to pump up at all.  I'm sure I'll be asking questions about the rebuild.  I'll start a new threat at that point.
Thanks,
Bruce