Author Topic: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)  (Read 8586 times)

Offline tjk

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Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« on: May 26, 2010, 08:14:20 AM »


You know, I've been fooling around with BB-guns for a while now, and over the course of time, I have placed several orders with ARH/Maccari. One thing that has always vexed me was that the different parts I've ordered are not labeled. But in order to stay in James' good graces, I ain't gonna bark too loud and cause a stink. It's his show, so he can run it as he likes. I will say that he is very helpful, and will offer some advice if you keep it short, and to the point,.....along with sounding like you have half a clue as to what you're doing. In all reality, he's a pretty funny fella, just understand he has a dry sence of humor, and not a lot of time for BS!!! Now on to the discussion at hand!!!



The one thing I've never felt sure about was these two seals. The Apex, and the Tesla. To me, the Apex seals are usually Red with a sharper bevelled edge and the parachute closer to the edge,....while the Tesla appears to have a more bevelled edge and the 'chute a bit closer to the center. Mind you I'm going by memory at the present. The Tesla seals I've recieved have been a dark purple'ish color. The Apex seems to be slightly bigger in diameter than the Tesla. Sooooooooo, right or wrong, this is the way I have distinguised the to seals. For all I know I'm Bass-Ackwards on this.



Now for the theory in using these seals and their applications. The Apex (red) seals seem to be the 'go-to seal' and fit tighter in the comp tube, and in some cases may need to be sized if too tight,.......whereas the slightly smaller diameter has a less tight fit in the comp tube and it's main application is for undersized comp tubed rifles. That makes sence to me I suppose. But can their be another application for the Tesla seal aside from the fore-mentionned statement?!?!? Well I think I've found it,...or at least this is my theory!!!!



OK, After many thousands of rounds through my Diana 34 (.22 cal), the Maccari spring finally gave up,....great spring BTW,....so I replaced it with the OEM spring and things were back to normal,....almost. I didn't bother replaceing the seal sinceI never had any problems with heavy dieselling,.....until now?!? The 34 started dieselling,....more than ever. Never a serious detonation,...but a healthy cloud of vapor would appear as I would blow itout the barrel. OK, time to change the seal,....guess it gave up the ghost too. Tore the 34 back down completely and reworked the whole action. CDT had already tuned her so most of the leg work had been taken care of. This time I opted for the Tesla seal. Felt snug enough in the comp tube so everything else went back together with no problems. Started shooting it,....you guessed it, more dieselling. 500 rounds later,....still smoking. Hmmmmmm, what's going on with this rifle. so I took the advice of a fellow GTA member and started shooting heavys in it. The theory being this would expand the seal some and should stop the dieselling after say 20 or so rounds,.....and it did too. But sure enough, when I went back to the RWS SD's the dieselling would reappear in just a few rounds. More heavys with no dieselling, and back to smoking when trying the SD's. And it's been this way since.



Now I've always experienced some slight spring buzz,....and I can live with that, but seems the heavier pellets used cause the least buzz going on. OK this is where it gets interesting, and how I made my conclusion for another application using the Tesla seal. This sounds crazy, but I've taken two SD's, loaded them both, and fired them at my trap. Nothing but a very healthy "pop", zero buzz, and two pels zipping towards the trap. Pulled out the chroney tried it again, and there really wasn't much of a drop in fps as one would think should be. Also, after numerous times, the spring feels and chroneysjust as strong as it did before, and a'single' pellet load shoots just as fast as it ever did,.....with the added dieselled vapors. BTW, SD's shooting 720's, and doubled up shooting in the 680's.



So here's my theory,....if you insist on shooting heavy pellets, and don't want to fatique the spring prematurely, try the Tesla seal. Maybe I havefounda dual purpose for the Tesla, and maybe I'm full of $#it... but so far so good. I've tested the double pellet application on all my spinners and long range plinking toys, and the double shot destroys any and all subjects in their way. Yesterday I send a grackle into a barrel roll (insert evil snicker!!!!!). But not wanting to press my luck, I went ahead and ordered some JSB heavies, as the Kodiaks/Baracudas are hard to come by. I did shoot a few Kodiaks and they proved to offer enough resistance to stop the dieselling, and the slight buzz. I hope the JSB's will perform the same task. Lucky for me my 34 isn't pellet-picky either. Well that's my story folks, Happy Shooting! tjk

397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline airiscool

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 08:45:46 AM »
Interesting topic Tom.

I hope Charley and Gene can add their knowlege of seals to this.

Considering how "generous"  some AG manufacturer's production tolerences seem to be, I can understand the need of various diameter seals to get closer to a better fit, but I wonder why use two differant materials (Apex and Tesla) ?  And what's the differance between them ?

Quite the surprise. I would have thought there would be a greater speed differance than just 40 fps shooting two pellets instead of one !!!!!

Paul
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline tjk

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 09:01:11 AM »
Me Too Paul, but when that 28.6 grainned pair slam into an empty 16 oz coke bottle, "whack" is an understatement. On paper at 30 yards, you can cover the hole they make together with a pencil eraser!! Crazy ain't it?!?!?!? tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline airiscool

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 09:15:17 AM »
Very !!!
I would have expected that, due to air tubulance behind the front pellet, the rear pellet would  vear off more in that distance.

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline tjk

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2010, 02:20:46 PM »
LOL's, one would think that for sure, but it ain't happenning in this case. Tandem pellets, and that a hoot. Perhaps it's the velocity or the rifleing is gripping them real good. My 34 is the 8 groove barreled model. Made in 07'. At 10 yards it's hard to tell looking at the hole  in paper two pellets pass through, but  at 30 yards it looks more like a bad key-hole. I did seat the pair with a swizzle-stick.   I'll be glad when my sleeve of JSB's get here.  tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline airiscool

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2010, 02:30:12 PM »
Must be NASCAR pellets ... they obviously know how to draft !!! LOL

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline tjk

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2010, 03:05:07 PM »
Just got out the chroney to re-test my theory. The SD's were in the usual 700's. Doubled up, the first shot went at 660. Stayed for two more double-shots. After that things started to slow down,....real fast. Lowest was 460 but crept in the 500's neighborhood. On the other hand, I shot a couple of kodiaks and Cro's and they both still shot in the low to mid 600's (with no dieselling!!). So maybe my theory is only half baked,.... or weak batteries in the chroney. Never did have much faith in a $70 dollar speed meter.  Needless to say, I think a heavy pellet will be the usual fare for this shooter. The whole gun just "sounds" right with the Cro's and K's. Cocking force is still strong! tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 03:23:54 PM »
Hey Thomas, what air rifle are you shooting those heavies with?
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline tjk

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 03:58:50 PM »
I thought it was a super-duper pellet shooting Diana 34, but alas, just a regular  shooter. BTW, as things slowed down boy did the "double shot" groups open up!!!   It was kinda cool,... although short lived. Just another adventure in AG's.  tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline tjk

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 04:10:59 PM »
I thought it was a super-duper pellet shooting Diana 34, but alas, just a regular  shooter. BTW, as things slowed down boy did the "double shot" groups open up!!!   It was kinda cool,... although short lived. Just another adventure in AG's.  tjk
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
Crosman Sierra-Pro,.177
Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
Crosman G1 Extreme
Daisy PowerLine 1000
TF-97 .22
B-28A MM T\'d
B-28 OEM Tuned by me
Beeman .22 RX-2 w/Theoben GR
Beeman .177 R1 Santa Rosa

Offline daved

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 09:12:00 AM »
Hey, Tom, I hate to rain on your parade (not really, I'm mean that way!), but I think you have the Tesla and Apex reversed.  As I understand it, the Tesla is the larger of the two seals, and is specifically intended to be sized by a knowledgeable tuner.  The Apex is for the rest of us dummies, and generally drops right in, no sizing needed :-).  Of course, maybe I'M the one that's got it bass-ackwards!  Later.

Dave

Offline airiscool

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 02:07:04 PM »
Quote
daved - 5/27/2010  5:12 PM

Hey, Tom, I hate to rain on your parade (not really, I'm mean that way!), but I think you have the Tesla and Apex reversed.  As I understand it, the Tesla is the larger of the two seals, and is specifically intended to be sized by a knowledgeable tuner.  The Apex is for the rest of us dummies, and generally drops right in, no sizing needed :-).  Of course, maybe I'M the one that's got it bass-ackwards!  Later.

Dave



When I ordered new seals for my Gamo Whisper I wasn't sure what size to order. Jim Maccari said to get the "Problem solver kit",  which comes with an Apex and a Tesla seal of differing sizes. http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/5499150.htm

My gun had a tight chamber and the Tesla (black) was the smaller of the two, so that's the one I used.

On Maccari's site it has two links from that Problem Solver Kit page explaining some of the differances size-wise.

Check out what it says in the second of the two aditional links.
  http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/1390459.htm

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 03:40:04 PM »
Just to let you guys know, I have carried up to a 100 different JM seals. I put them as sized in divider trays. I never went by the color. I always pre fitted to make sure the seal I was going to use would feel right to me. I found as Jim found out that between manufacturing changing specs on tubes there was also the varieables of tubes being smaller or larger than the seal reaquired. That is why Jim stopped making the blue apex seal and is just sticking with the red apex seals, tesla seals and the over size sealls to be custom fitted to the tube per individuals. And I am sure Jim will make other changes as time passes. We are very lucky to have Jim and when he is gone we all are in deep poo poo...

These manufacturers do not keep there production machines in tolerance and by the time they realize a problem there could very well be a 100 or more guns passed on to the distributors. And we end up with them...:)
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline airiscool

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RE: Tesla seals vs. Apex seals,....or different apps (long)
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2010, 07:09:12 AM »
Gene,
Any idea what the differance is in materials between the Apex and the Tesla ? And why two differant ones are offered, instead of just one material used for all the various sizes ?

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.