Author Topic: cO2 and HPA???  (Read 10711 times)

Offline p8ntballernwpa

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RE: anti-syphon tube..
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 06:42:53 AM »
I was thinking with the on/off, I could fill the internal tank and then turn the on/off to off and then remove the paintball tank.
QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.

Offline leftcoast1

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RE: anti-syphon tube..
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 06:57:50 AM »
Nah get a 9oz tank keep it on the gun. You get a little higher velocity and a ton more shots.
Jason
A couple of Springers nothin to get excited about.

Offline ribbonstone

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9oz.
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2007, 10:48:51 AM »
Get the 9oz...get two, one to use when the other need filling..it's big, it's heavy (aqbout 25oz. when filled)...does put some stress on the gas tube fitting...but it is:
1. the cheapest tank to buy
2. holds enough gas for 350-500 shots (depending on the tune/velocity).
3. costs about 2.50 to $3 to fill with gas at apapintball shop (and 9 oz. of gas in 12gr. cartridges would be about   $10-12).

Can use a remote easily on a QB79, which is no real problem when shooting from one palce (like the bench rest testing pellets).  Can hook that line to a 20oz tank (or 24oz...but the 20's are common and less expensive) and shoot well over 1000 shots (less if it's tuned to be fast).

I'dll just shut the tank valve off just before you are finished shooting for the day, using the gas in the tube and the remote line until empty, then QD the line when the pressure in it is near zero.

For QB 78's, if I'm using a remote line, will dissaassemble the bulk fill end cap, removing the back-low valve parts making it a simple connection rather than a bulk valve...that way, i'll shoot the gas in the gas tube AND the remote line (after turning the paintball tank to "off")  befor disconnecting.
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Yes, when you are not on a remote line, you do want the rifle to be filled by liquid co2.. but NOT 100% FULL!!!!!  Looking for about 70% full...need the "extra" room for expansion as it warms up.  For a standard QB witha bulk fill valve, that works out to something like 1.1 to 1.3oz.  Can fill to moe, but you'd better shoot right away rather than letting the rifle warm up during the summer months.

When shooting from a remote line, do NOT want liquid co2 in the rifle. Sure...it  will shoot a bit faster with liquid misting trhough the valve, and you need the liquid co2 in theguhn's gas tube to make the shot count reasonably when bulking, but it will shoot a lot more consistantly using gas and a large gas volume (the remote tank).
Robert

Offline p8ntballernwpa

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RE: 9oz.
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2007, 12:38:29 PM »


Right now I have two brass eagle tanks, one is a 9oz and one is 4oz. I know these two will fit for sure because they are thinner than say a pure energy tank. Because I have like 4 or 5 pure energy tanks in 9oz, but I am not sure if they would fit because they a little bit thicker of a tank. But I guess I will have to wait and see when the air rifle gets here from airgunsmith.com.



The rifle is like the first big thing I have ever won, can't wait til it gets here.

QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.

Offline ribbonstone

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Pix:
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2007, 12:42:45 PM »
The 9oz. is about right for one range session. Does kind of suck to walk around with that hose and a tank, but for static shooting (like benchrest, testing pellets, mini-sniping, etc.) it works for me.  Could just bulk fill it and detach the line and go off prowling, or reattach the standard cap and use 12gr. cartidges.


The 20oz. really isn't mobile, but it's no more of a problem from the bench than the 9oz.


Not saying it's the only way to go, but for when you are staying in one place and shooting from a bench, it's an advantage; you stay on the "sweet spot" for as long as there is gas in the tank.

With your QB79, the 9oz. standard tank will fit.  It's big, it's heavy, but it fits and gives a whole lot of shots (something close to 500-600with an issue QB). Can figure something between .5 and .6 gr. of CO2 per shot....which works out to between  50 and 40 shots per 24gr. (two cylinders).  A 9oz. tank works out to  252 grs., which should earn between  500 and 420 shots (faster using more gas, slower using less).  

Given something like $2.50 to $3 per fill up (for the 9oz) at the paintball shop, that works out to between $5 and $8 for 1000shots.  Using 12gr. cylinders, it would cost  between $20 and $25 per 1000shots.  Won't take many 1000 shots to pay for the tanks.
Robert

Offline p8ntballernwpa

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RE: Pix:
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2007, 01:38:02 PM »
Thank you for the pics and more info.
QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.

Offline ribbonstone

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I think what you are asking about....
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2007, 02:08:19 PM »
...is why a fill of CO2 gives you about three dozen good shots and a fill of HPA at teh same pressure only gives you a few shots.

And it has to do with how c02 works.  CO2 is sold as a LIQUID in our uses; it's sold by weight (12gr., 88gr. or in ounces in paintball tanks).  Air is measured by PRESSURE.

(OK...in theory, if you pressurize any gas enough, it turns to liquid...actually, becasue gas heats as you pressurize it, would have to pressurize, suck out the heat, pressurize, suck out the heat, etc.  Pressure to turn any gas into a liquid for anything other than co2 is giagantic and the end temperature would be so low, you'd have a very hard time finding a way to dispense it).

Co2 is a liquid.  At least up until about 100degrees, part of the co2 in a cartriges is liquid.  When you let some out (fire a shot) the liquid converts to pressurized gas, and that keeps the pressure equal in the storage container.  Eventually, you'll shoot enough that all the liquid converts to gas,  and that gas will be at something like 950-1000 psi at normal temperatures.  SOOOO...you get a lot of shots while the C02 is liquid.

If you compare a tank of ALL GAS (no liquid) co2 at 1000psi (what happens when you finally run out of liqid co2) and air at 1000psi, co2 still gives more shots.  It's heavier than air, so the valve can only transfer a small amount in the time it's is open. Air is "thinner", the same valve will let more of it escape (to push a pellet) in teh same time frame.  So while you'd get fewer shots per volume of gas in the tube using HPA, the shots would be faster.

With air, could pump up the big air tank to 950psi and shoot without a regulator.  Would get a lot fewwer shots on a tank ful as there is no liquid air to donvert to gas as you shoot.  Could fill the same size tank with 950psi of co2 GAS (no liquid).  Would stillg et few shots, but would get more than with HPA (becasue less co2 gas flows with each firing).
Robert

Offline p8ntballernwpa

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RE: I think what you are asking about....
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2007, 04:22:27 AM »


Alright, I understand alot better now, see I have played paintball for many years and went through only using co2 and then HPA; and I just thought since the internals might somewhat the same then so I was thinking HPA would be better. Thank you for explaining it to me.

QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.

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Re: cO2 and HPA???
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2007, 06:28:58 AM »
p8ntballernwpa

k i cant really answer any of your questions because they have already been answered by some great minds. anywho i use hpa on my 79.
with remote line and all that good stuff. i have a bottle carrier that i use when im hunting and if im bench shooting i just leave it on the ground.
ive never really counted number of shots i get,  i do get A LOT. :)    heres a pic of my set up. its much like the other one just i use HPA.
sry if the pics are a bit big.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/AaronGouin/QB79rig001.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/AaronGouin/QB79rig003.jpg



Offline p8ntballernwpa

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Re: cO2 and HPA???
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2007, 07:41:30 AM »


I thought you could use HPA and still get a pretty decent amount of shots from it. Are you using a 68/3000 tank?



But I think I am going to stick with the co2 because of the ease of availability. The nearest place for to fill up for HPA is an hour a way, one way.



I like you stock pattern on your rifle.



thank you for the pictures and the info.

QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.

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Re: cO2 and HPA???
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2007, 10:29:32 AM »
its a 47/3000 steel tank, and yes i got a lot of shots with it. one of my buddies used to be a canadian pro baller. hes got all the stuff for filling so he does it for free lol.

Offline p8ntballernwpa

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Re: cO2 and HPA???
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2007, 12:39:11 PM »
Yep, that would be nice. I used to have a scuba tank that I filled my little tanks off of, but I had to sell all of it for books and gas money.
QB-79 (.177), Walther Falcon Hunter (.22), Crosman Quest (.177)
Some people go to church and think about hunting...others go hunting and think about God.