Author Topic: Before I buy a CFX .22....  (Read 14660 times)

Offline r1derbike

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Re: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2007, 04:00:03 PM »
Hmmm...gotta chrony comin' this way, will fps my .22 cfx and .177 cfx.  Maybe everyone with a cfx .22 should post their chrony results with different pellets here too?

I installed an BSA laser/flashlight combo to the scope on the .22 CFX, and I gotta say, that thing is more fun than I had anticipated! The flashlight is quite weak.  The gun is only accurate at the distance the laser was sighted, but I'm having more fun at night than I've ever had with my clothes on...

Charles
Lead Launchers: 30 Year Old Daisy .177 Cal. Model 880 Pumper (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Gamo CFX .22 Cal. Springer with GRT III Trigger (BSA 4X32 Scope), Gamo CFX .177 Cal. Combo Springer (BSA 2-7X32 AO Scope), Gamo R-77 .177 Cal. CO2 Combat Pistol (Laser Sight), Umarex/Beretta .177 Cal. CX4 Storm CO2 Bullpup (Walther PS-22 Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light), Chinese QB-57 .22 Cal. Takedown Springer (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light),  Chinese Tech-Force S2-1 .177 Cal. Springer Pistol (Boat Anchor...), Chinese Tech-Force Contender Model 89 .22 Cal. Springer (BSA Laser & Tactical Light, CenterPoint 4-16X40 Illum. Ret. Mil. Dot Scope), Crosman 1377 .177 Cal. Pumper Pistol (1399 stock, BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Daisy Powerline 717 .177 Cal. Single-Pump Pistol (Open Sights).

Offline davee1

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Re: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2007, 04:08:27 PM »
Absolutely...post your chrony numbers here for your CFX .22. That was my original intention when I started the thread, but I couldn't get much immediate response to give me a good idea of what to expect, so I ordered it anyway. Now I kinda wish I didn't get the CFX. Unless someone can tell me that my numbers are pretty low, then I might open her up and see whats goin on....I've got springs and seals.
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline vinceb

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Some yes, some no...
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2007, 12:08:48 AM »
This is a correlation of published weight and the velocity he's getting:

Daisy   14.3   666
SuperH   14.2   740
Superdome   14.3   663
Predator   16.5   756
JSB Exact   15.8   767
RamJet   14.8   735
CrowMag   18.2   720
FTS   14.6   662
Baracuda   21.14   704


His Daisy, Superdome, and FTS velocities look about right. His SuperH and RamJet readings look iffy, and his Predator, JSB, CrowMag, and Baracuda readings look awful high - over 20 ft-lbs.

The CFX has the same basic powerplant as the other 1000fps Gamo's, except that it has 2 seals instead of one and a longer transfer port. It seems to me, anyway, that it is unlikely that the gun would perform any better than, say, a Shadow or a 440.

Offline PeakChick

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RE: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2007, 01:41:37 AM »
Scott, your experience with your CFXs sounds pretty much like mine. Both of mine are very accurate, very easy to shoot, both became brilliant with GRT-III triggers installed.

With regard to everyones concern for chrony numbers:

I can't offer chrony numbers on mine, don't own a chrony. What I do know is that both my CFXs are brilliantly accurate with BSA Wolverines, 8.4gr in .177, 16.0gr in .22. Neither rifle has ever failed to take down game with one shot.

I have been shooting, primarily powder burners, for over 37 years (oooh, really dating myself) and have never owned a chrony. I've never felt I needed one, would rather buy a new rifle, scope, etc. I have always approached developing a pet load for a gun the old fashioned way........ Look at the available data, start with a range of components that should work well and work up to the one that was most accurate and did the job  down range for me that I expected of it.

When I get a new air rifle I go at it the same way, basic prep on the rifle, cleaning, scope mounting, locktiting the screws, etc. Then I sit down with a large sampling of pellets and find the one that the rifle and I like best. Then I just shoot, virtually everyday.

The point I am getting to is that chronograph numbers are great, good data, fun to compare, but they are not the be all, end all of shooting performance. If a .22 air rifle shoots 1" groups at 40 yds and knocks a squirrel flat with one shot everytime is "only" shooting at 665fps does that mean I should give up on it? Does that mean that I really need a 900fps super barn burner?

Don't get me wrong, I think a chrony can be a great tool, nice to know exactly how fast, how numerically consistent a gun is. It's a great diagnostic tool for a gun that won't shoot consistently no matter what you try, gives an indicator that there might be a mechanical problem that need to be addressed. But isn't real world perfomance what really counts? Accuracy and down range performance?
The current stable, (arsenal, quiver?): BSA Lightning XL .177, BSA Sportsman HV .22, BSA Ultra .177, CZ634 .177, Daystate Harrier X .177, TAU 200 Senior .177, HW 97 .177, HW 50s .177, HW 30 .177, RWS 92 .177, Gamo 126 MC Super, Gamo Big Cat .177, AR2078A, QB78 .177, Quest 1000 .177, Beeman SS650 .177., Beeman P17 .177.
________________________________________

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

Offline longislandhunter

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RE: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2007, 02:32:51 AM »
Very well said Stephanie,,,, what matters in the end is whether the rifle adequately performs the function you are using it for.  In my case all my air rifles are used for one purpose,, that being small game hunting.  I do target shoot some, but my main focus is hunting, and a dead squirrel is a dead squirrel whether the pellet hit him at 750 FPS or 650 FPS.    

Jeff
\"If it was easy it wouldn\'t be hunting, it would be shopping.\"

Offline daved

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Good point, Stephanie...
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2007, 02:46:11 AM »
I think a lot of us get caught up in the numbers game, I'm sure more than a few have had go to, never miss guns they loved, until they got a chrony.  Suddenly, that wonder gun is a weak sister, and they're trying to figure out how to get another 100 fps out of it :-).

 That said, the chronograph is an integral part of our little game here, and for some, i.e. Talon shooters like me, they're just about required for getting these things dialed in.  Springers not so much, although I had an issue with my first CFX, wildly varying velocities, that took a chrony to zero in on.  All I knew for sure without the chrony was that my accuracy sucked!  Besides, at the risk of sounding somewhat chauvinistic, it's also at least partly a guy thing, somehow we just can't resist measuring and comparing :-)!

Back in the day, I used to hand load magnum handguns.  That was when having a Weatherby really meant something, and unless you could afford a Weatherby, you couldn't afford a chrony.  But for what they go for now, I feel they are an important part of a shooters tool kit, especially when used properly.  Properly would go something like this, in my opinion:

New gun, routine out of box maintenance, as you described.
Break it in, 500-2000 pellets, depending on gun.  Don't worry much about accuracy or best pellet yet, just shoot it.
After break in, determine typical range and target, then find 2 or 3 most accurate pellets.
NOW do your chrony testing, both to establish a base line, and to determine which of your accurate pellets gives the best power FOR YOUR PURPOSE, bearing in mind that best power may not be most power.  The flip side being, most power may not be most accurate, but it might still be accurate enough.  That was the case with my old .177 CFX, most accurate was JSB Exact 4.52, but Superdomes were almost as good, and delivered about 2 fpe more.  Superdomes were and still are the best all around pellet in that gun.

Like I said, this is my opinion of how it SHOULD be done, but that doesn't mean that's how I'm doing it :-).  Forgive my long windedness (quiet, Dan!), I'm sure most of this is obvious, but maybe it'll give the newbs a starting point that helps avoid some frustration or even buyers remorse.  The most important point you made is to just shoot.  NOTHING takes the place of practice, which builds confidence in your own abilities, and familiarity with the guns capabilities.  I finally got out of springers because I never developed any confidence in my HW 77, which killed my self conficence.  Went from 5 springers to 1 PCP, and I don't think I'll be going back.  Too much work and not enough power :-)!  And no, I don't know how much is enough, but I'm working on it.  Later.

Dave


Offline davee1

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RE: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2007, 02:57:23 AM »


PeakChick, points well taken...I'm with you on the chrony not being the endall decider so to speak. Of course one should look at what pellets work well, what the gun feels like, how it shoots, can it be easily improved like with a GRTIII. Of course I want an accurate airgun. I guess its easy to give the impression that is what I'm always looking for...for example, "hey everybody what kinda numbers are you seeing coming out of your CFX". In my case, I have 2 initial criteria that I look for in purchasing an airgun...long range and shortrange performance. Now I know that if a group of folks chime in and say "oh man, I'm getting 900fps with CPH .22 pellets" well thats gonna most likely be a good long range rifle. But I hear that most folks are getting 600~750, which puts the CFX in the shortrange category(for me), which is further verified when I get the CFX .22 and try it for myself. I can't use the CFX for long distance shots. 50 yard shots are a stretch, while 30yrd shots are highly accurate, especially when using the scope that came with it. Can't use the open sights though, but thats another story.



What really ticks me off is when I find out that some of my other .22 airguns are more powerful and just as accurate, or at least closely accurate(good enough for pest control), and I've paid a whole lot less for them. Case in point...my Storm. Paid $133 for it and it reaches out much farther than my CFX, and even though it may have a weird trigger, I can still hit what I'm aiming at, with open sights or a BSA red dot. Another one, my B3AK47 .22, which I paid $57. This little guy packs a wallop at short range and isthe most accurate .22 airgun I have at short range, with open sights. So now I have a CFX .22 and I'm going to open up a new class of airguns in my collection called "intermediate range". It's inbetween short and long range.



So I just looked back at what I have written and it seems that I have ranted somewhat. Getting back to my initial point...the chrony numbers requests that I'm throwing out there help me decide what range the the gun will be used for. And as you have pointed out, the chrony should give folks an idea of performance dropoff/increase. Its really thrilling to chrony an accurategun, modify the gun, chrony it again, and find out that you just increased your velocity, and accuracy is still there. A chrony is a great tool to have.

Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline vinceb

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Well....
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2007, 03:10:31 AM »
It should be possible to get a CFX close to the Storm's velocity... my old B19 (with a very similar powerplant) was almost a match for the Storm I sold.

Perhaps a good work-over of the powerplant - and possibly replacing the breach seals - will get you closer to where you want to be, without sacrificing the CFX's virtues.

Offline davee1

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RE: Well....
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2007, 03:15:25 AM »
But are the breech seals available? And I was thinking that a E2000 or Tarantula spring may increase performance a little.
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline davee1

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Scott....
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2007, 03:32:12 AM »
Scott, would you be willing just to test your Barracudas over again? They are the heaviest pellet of the bunch. I'm getting 550fps with Kodiaks, which are the same as barracudas.
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline davee1

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I may not have said it before....but
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2007, 04:41:01 AM »


All opinions are welcome here. You can post your numbers or talk about whatever you want here. Thats part of what makes GTA a great place to be. We can discuss things without being rude to each other. Thats a whole lot better than what I've experienced in other forums. Thats why I choose this place.



Please folks, keep it comin.

Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline 3n00n

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Chronograph helps determine specific barrel / pellet match
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2007, 04:52:20 AM »
Example would bethe Diana 52 that shot crowmags at 760 and cp at 790, but when the 'old supply' crowmags ran out the 'new supply' shot atmuch different poi and were more difficult to push into the barrel. Chrony says 'new supply' crowmags are shooting about 670, and even thoughgroups are still good, spring damage seems more likely so cp it is {unlessnew batches go south too}
`
Another example is match rifles, because 575 is the magic # for 10m wadcutters according toGerman information, the best accuracy closest to 575 should bebest 'match use' pellets for repeatability. Though there is no current threat of j shooting a match in an olympic venue, anyassistance makes for better groups . . . {well, if it is an 'on' day anyway}

Offline davee1

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RE: Chronograph helps determine specific barrel / pellet match
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2007, 06:19:04 AM »


Yes, I think these are excellent examples of why we like chronys!!! I like to measure the out of the box performance of my airguns and then "compare to now" type endeavors. It keeps me off the streets. I spend money, but not on the streets.



I would be really bummed if I didn't have my chrony...I guess its one of those things like you don't really know what you are missing until you have one...:)

Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline vinceb

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Yes... in the library, there's a section...
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2007, 12:48:24 PM »
...on the Gamo rotary breach. There's 2 "O" rings, and they are apparently standard sizes.

As for the spring, there's a couple of options. The Macarri springs are usually considered to be the best, but you need new guides to make them work properly. Some shooters have also reported good performance and reliability out of the Crosman Quest spring and tophat.

In any event, 630 with Superdomes does strike me as a bit weak. I'm wondering if your breach seals are leaking (I know mine are!), if your main seal is damaged, or if your spring is short.

Offline r1derbike

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Re: Before I buy a CFX .22....
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2007, 01:30:24 PM »
I must have a chrony! Add a barrel full of rednecks, and you've got a party! Max velocity measurements on lots-o-stuff! Spitting watermelon seeds.  Hocking loogeys.  Firing beer bottle lids with just a snap of your thumb and middle finger (kind of a mini frisbee).  Spattin' a big ol' wad-o-chaw! Throwing rocks! Dead squirrel toss! 170 pound pig toss, after takin' 'im down with one shot of PBA ammo in a Hunter Extreme (OK, that's pushing it). Man, I gotta get me one-o-dem!

The possiblities are endless!

Charles
Lead Launchers: 30 Year Old Daisy .177 Cal. Model 880 Pumper (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Gamo CFX .22 Cal. Springer with GRT III Trigger (BSA 4X32 Scope), Gamo CFX .177 Cal. Combo Springer (BSA 2-7X32 AO Scope), Gamo R-77 .177 Cal. CO2 Combat Pistol (Laser Sight), Umarex/Beretta .177 Cal. CX4 Storm CO2 Bullpup (Walther PS-22 Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light), Chinese QB-57 .22 Cal. Takedown Springer (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light),  Chinese Tech-Force S2-1 .177 Cal. Springer Pistol (Boat Anchor...), Chinese Tech-Force Contender Model 89 .22 Cal. Springer (BSA Laser & Tactical Light, CenterPoint 4-16X40 Illum. Ret. Mil. Dot Scope), Crosman 1377 .177 Cal. Pumper Pistol (1399 stock, BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Daisy Powerline 717 .177 Cal. Single-Pump Pistol (Open Sights).