Q on Gamos

Is there a difference in the guts of a shadow vs a cfx and other than the break vs under is there much a difference between these 2?

I think the tophat is different in a cfx than a shadow,thats why the cfx doesnt shoot as hard,but ya know i think thats the only difference..

[Gene_SC]

The top hat and I think the guide may be different. Da Tuna Knows..

Gene

is it generally accepted that the shadow is a more powerful rifle than the cfx?

I'm kicking around buying a refurb s1k for $89.99 from Natch and then maybe sending it CDT's way, but I'd like to know more about what makes it tick.

Haven't been able to find much info out there except that people seem to like them.

Youkilis:

I think the general concensus here is correct and that there is a difference in the tophats used.  

My understanding is that Gamo uses two different tophats in their CFX/Shadow/Hunter 220 and 440 series.  Wheteher or not this matters when comparing an untuned Shadow to an untuned CFX is debateable, but it can matter when it comes to swapping the standard-issue mainsprings for something from the aftermarket.

I also think that there is a slight difference in the strength of the trigger blade return springs used in these guns.  I think the part used in the 440/Shadow Supreme/ CFX is a little "lighter" than the part used in the 220/Shadow which would be stiffer by comparison.  This would account for the difference in advertised trigger pull weights of the various models within this range.

This trigger return spring is what you are "pulling through" in a standard-issue Gamo's "first stage".  It doesn't do much except make what is really a trigger with single-stage internal geometry feel sort of like a trigger with true two-stage geometry.

This is one of the things that makes "Da Tuna's" trigger the excellent upgrade that it truly is.  It doesn't just lighten the pull.  It operates with true two-stage geometry where both stages of the pull do useful work.  The end result is that you get the light pull most of us like for precise shooting, but you maintain plenty of sear engagement for safe operation along with that light pull.  

There may be a difference in spring guides, too, as I believe Gene mentioned.

And as Gene mentioned, "Da Tuna" would know for sure, as he probably takes more of these things apart in an afternoon than I ever will in a lifetime.

-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net

Youkilis:

It may be generally accepted that the Shadow is more powerful than the CFX but I'm not sure I believe there is a significant difference in output between the two.

I'm confident that the CFX has enough ooooom-pa-pa to shoot just as flat as an untuned HW-97 would.  Likewise, I KNOW that my Shadow had more power and velocity than my tuned .177 R-9 has and would definitely win out on power over a standard .177 R-9.  Either way, I'd personally rate the power of each as sufficient for any purpose I would put an air rifle to.

I personally wouldn't let any power difference between these two models be the determining factor in my purchase decision.

I'm not a huge fan of fixed-barrel spring-piston rifles because they aren't as quick to reload as the break barrels with their nice, wide-open breeches are.  That makes a big difference to me because of the nature the hunting that I engage in (upland game birds) is such that I want to capitalize on multiple, consecutive shot opportunities that arise in the target-rich environment one finds oneself in when surrounded by a covey of 40 to 50 valley quail.

For other kinds of hunting, fast reloading isn't an issue.  In turkey hunting, for example, you essentially get just one "shot" at anchoring your bird.

But hey, I'm prbably the wrong guy to comment on matters of power because to a point, it doesn't matter to me.

I'm more concerned with how much I've got at 50 yards than how much I've got at the muzzle and if I can get 8 ft/lbs+ at 50 yards, I've got enough energy to kill all of the game one can legally shoot with an air rifle in California very dead very quickly if I apply it in the right spot.

I'm also a guy who, "back in the day," owned two Webley Omegas in .177, with one totally stock and the other kitted out with several hundered 1980's dollars worth of Venom parts.  I hunted with the lower powered gun because it gave more consistant velocities over a broader range of temperatures.  The more stable point of impact was more important to me than power was, because with brain-pan shots on cottontails, even that wimpy stock 11.5-11.8 ft/lb .177 Omega had enough juice at 45 to 50 yards to kill a cottontail.

All of this is to say that I still believe that where hunting with a pellet gun, particularly in .177, placement matters more than power does, because in .177, even with a gun around 12 ft/lb, you'll have plenty of penetration to reach something vital and pierce it.  In the field, I don't hink you'll notice a difference of a ft/lb more or less and don't think a rabbit or squirrel would, and that is probably the difference you are talking about between a Shadow and a CFX, if one even exists.

I say "if" because the nature of thse things is that they are all individual to a degree.  My Shadow, for example, put out more power than my wife's does.  Basically, if there is a difference, you might just as easily attribute it to the individual performance of the individual guns, and if you happened to compare a particularly "hot" CFX with a Shadow running a bit on the wimpy side of normal, the CFX might come out the winner in the power department.

Since I believe that either one has enough power and velocity for any use one would put a smallbore spring-piston air rifle to, I'd buy the one I like the best.  For me, that is the Shadow.  For you, it may be the CFX.  They are both nice guns and it seems like you really can't go wrong either way.

-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net

[Gene_SC]

I took my Black Shadow .22 over for the Tuna to tune and trigger job last week. He let me watch him as he tore down the air gun and go though each step of the tune. As I was watching him at work, I was thinking to myself that with it all apart on his bench that it all looked very simple in design. Not that I would ever attempt doing one myself.. NO WAY!!!.. But the opportunity to stand and watch this man do a tune and trigger and testing for 4 1/2 hours was amazing. He was very meticulous and precise with everything he did.

But back to you question Youkilis. What Makes it tick.... I looked at the schematic in the library and the 220 - 880 schematic looks very much like what I saw while watching the Tuna do his work. I do not know if you have seen the schematic, but you can see how everything goes together.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/library/gamo%20hunter%20220%20through%20890.htm

If I am not mistaken, the Tuna mentioned to me that a CFX does not have a top hat. I may be wrong but that seems to me what he told me.

I can tell you that all the parts I saw were well designed for a production air gun. The only thing is that most of the parts are stamped out or rolled out. This is the major draw back to any stock Gamo or for that matter most all production air guns. The reason is there are allot of sharp edges and burrs that tend to wear against other internal parts which would cut the life of the seals and metal parts tremendously.

I can tell all of you this. That when the Tuna was done with every piece he worked on you could give those parts to a baby to play with and the baby would never get a scratch from any of the parts... That's A Fact..

Gene

Thanks for the information, much appreciated.

There are so many models and the differences can be hard to make out.

I think a great service would be a comparative table for the library (assuming someone would actually want to do it).

People who have limited experience would be hard pressed to make an educated decision on why they should purchase a shadow 1k or a 440 or a cfx or other models.

Maybe something as simple as weight, ctc at X yardage, and fps would go a long way to helping people make more educated purchases. Or differences like stock, trigger, etc.

I certainly lack the knowledge for such a compilation, but it would certainly be a great resource if such a thing were put together.

I thing I have noticed in the CFX is the rifle bore is larger in the .177 and the .22. The same pellet that fits the bore in my shadows is loose in the CFX.

 When pushing the pellet through the bore by hand you can also feel the bore is larger in the CFX.

The Top hats I have seen come out of my rifles are all the same exceot the Nitro 17 it had a thin top hat with a nylon spacer to make up for the thinner steel top hat. This made the top hats the same in the total height.

[Gene_SC]

I totally agree with you but also agree with J.P. .. I am still new at this but what I have found out is that you can have two guns exactly with the same stats and physical characteristics but they could completely different to shoot.. I have spent allot of money on buying different models of Gamo's and other brand rifles. All the information that I read about everyone of them did not mean a hill of beans to me. Not until I got the gun and shot it, placed different scopes on them, used different pellets in them, was I able to satisfy my likes or dislikes for that particular air gun.

You defiantly have to have a base of data on all of them to get close to what you want. Some like to hunt, some like to do paper while others like to do FT. Some just like to do it all.. I started out wanting use my air guns strictly for hunting. Now I want to do paper and hunting.

The one Gamo that I bought was the Gamo Hunter 1250 Royal .22.. It is the most powerful springer made I think. "Some may disagree" .. That particular air gun could be used for hunting larger small game... My problem after I bought it was fatigue of cocking repeatedly. It weighs at least 10 lbs with scope and mount installed and reality struck me.. I could not lug that thing all over the woods for 6 or more hours at a time plus cock it... lol. I could not hit anything with it unless I had a table, tree or fence to steady it on. So it sits there along with the rest of Gamo's and I shoot it a few times a week at long range with my table rest..

I think your idea of having a comparison chart with specs and data for all the air guns is an excellent idea. I could start one and build on it for the all the new members to look at. But it will only give numbers ect. It won't tell ya which one you will like or dislike once you get it in your hands..

Gene

I completely understand where you're coming from.

I suppose I would prefer not to have to buy a gun to know whether or not I would like it, and probably the best answer is to shoot someone else's, but that's not really an option for me.

I could just run out and buy any ol' gun, but to me part of the fun is talking about it and mulling over exactly what the pros and cons are of a given feature and trying to learn what you can...at least until my next paycheck comes =D

For what it's worth, Gamo seems to list them as Shadow then CFX then Hunter, so at least that's how they wish to market them in terms of a list.

There is some good information there on their site, it's just not alll complete.

For example on the 560 Carbine, you get this:

VELOCITY - 560 FEET PER SECOND
SINGLE SHOT
BRAKE BARREL - SINGLE COCKING SYSTEM
AUTOMATIC COCKING SAFETY SYSTEM
COCKING EFFORT - 21 LBS.
BARREL - PRECISION RIFLED STEEL
ACCURACY - 0.79" GROUPS AT 10.83 YARDS (CENTER TO CENTER)
TRIGGER - 2 STAGE - 1ST STAGE ADJUSTABLE
MANUAL SAFETY

but the CF-X and many other models are TBA on accuracy.

[Gene_SC]

Your so right. I have been able to interpret alot of good information from the Staitshooters web site. They test all there guns and do a review on them. They give good stats with pellet types etc. Also they have a section which may help people get an idea about air guns and what to use them for etc. Although they only carry high end air guns the priciples still are the same...

Here is the link: http://www.straightshooters.com/common/airfaq.html

I have sent an email to them concerning adding there infomation links to our Library. Hope they will give us the permission..

Gene

[CharlieDaTuna]

All of the Gamo's imported into the US that I have ever seen and not modified, and that's at least a couple hundred of them, have had tophats and there are at least three different tophats used that I have seen.

The ones set up for many European countries do not have them as it is part of the process for reducing the power to meet that particular countries limits and laws. Neither Genes or my  Gamo .22 CFX Royal's, both of which were imported from the UK, had tophats as well as the spring block geometry is radically different and a different spring is used.

But then of course there are occasions that a tophat is altered considerably in size, composition, weight and in some cases even removed.