Author Topic: Help Needed  (Read 2406 times)

Offline Traolach

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Help Needed
« on: July 02, 2008, 01:20:21 PM »
Earlier I posted a message asking for help with my Hammerli Titan but I think that my problem might be in general with all springers.  I really need some input please as to what is going on and what I should do about the scope.  Thanks!!!!

Offline tjk

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 03:44:44 PM »
OK, what seems to be the problem? Throw us a bone here so we can asist you. scope issues, mount issues, barrel droop, proper stance??
397 Benji-98\' model    
Marksman  0035, My Fav!,CDT T\'d
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Benji 392 08\'
CDT TT\'d RWS 34 .22,CP 4-16X40 AO
MM T\'d Marksman 0035
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Offline palonej

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 08:02:29 AM »
Type of scope, mount, gun, .......................INFO!!! I've worked out so many scope issues I'm drooling!!

Offline Traolach

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 12:04:05 PM »
Hi, all the information can be found in my post entitled "Hammerli Titan Question".  However, I think I found the problem - a bent spring.  Now what caused the spring to bend ...?  Terry

Offline RCnMo

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 12:25:50 PM »
Damage to springs can be caused by detonation, ill fitted spring guides, dry firing, Chinese workmanship. There are guys on this forum with more experience in this than me, but I know these are attributing factors to bent and broken springs. They all break sooner or later. I got about 4000 rounds out of a stock Gamo spring in my CFX and Ive put about 6000 through my B3 and it's still going. It's kind of the luck of the draw and staying away from super heavy pellets too. I think low tolerance parts and proper lubes should keep a springer going for darned near forever.
CFX .177, RWS 34 Panther .177, B26 .177, B30 .177, B40 .177, Crosman Quest .177(gave it to my brother),Crosman G1 .177, B3 .177, B2 .177, QB 78 .177, TF89 .22, Crosman 1377, P17

Offline 3n00n

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Nature of the beast.
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 12:27:27 PM »
Spring temper, finished wire diameter play big parts.< Link to the completeDianawerks thread. <
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Annealed wire is coil wound andhardenprepared with processes unique to the application. Afterwards the temper is imparted sothe martensite is stronger and more ductile.
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The big problem with 'mass produced'springs is uniformity. The temperature should be high enough to austenize while being low enough to reduce formations of bainite or pearlite which are brittle and can shatter like glass does.
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The thicker the wire cross section is, the better likelihood that there is enough ductile material present to reduce the problems associated with brittle wire, but the rub is compressibility decreases as wire diameter increases. At a certain point, the spring wireis to thickand the mechanical advantage fails. {Bent barrel, busted linkage, sear catch, etc}
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The 'liquid' properties of solidified metalwith thecrystal structures formed{like the wayice or glass forms} creates a possibility of fracture along the line of the grain. Usingsome method of precipitation hardening can help to a certain extent,however this is a rather time consuming and costly type of process. This is why anARH spring is more costly and durablethan a massproduced Mayer & Grammelspacher spring. In over six years, I've never broken an ARH spring. Currently dohave several broken, kinked or 'short set' Diana springs, some of which were NIB never used . . .
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Athicker, tougherspring as well as theheavierpistonand longer stroke properties Mr Medina pointed out, gives higher possibility that a heavypellet can work well ~ although the specific individual characteristics of the entire system should be given considerations. An example would bea break barrel with aharshshot cyclecausing the barrel to 'flick' off of the lock with a heavy pellet, functions very smoothly with a midweight pellet but smacks forward with a lighter pellet. Transfer port, barrel lead in, seal friction, piston size / weight, spring size / weight, guide size / length, can and do vary any partof the example listed, so when one is altered the exploration process may just begin all over.

Offline vinceb

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Well, the specific reason for a spring to bend is...
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2008, 12:28:09 PM »
...that the spring wire is not perfectly consistent in diameter or alloying, or the spring had an offset load. The way a springer is designed, this second reason is not very likely.

 When a spring is then overstressed the metal goes past its elastic point and gets into the 'yield' range where it bends permanently. A spring bends because the coils do not yield evenly... parts of the spring wire bend more than other parts. If the spring wire was perfectly consistent, all parts of all coils would have bent the same and the spring would still be straight- but shorter.

The real question is, then, what overstressed the spring? It could have been a badly made spring that just couldn't handle the loads it was supposed to handle, or the gun could have dieseled badly enough to crunch the spring. The AR1000 variants (like the Titan, the SS1000's, the Force 1000, and several others) seem to suffer from loose seals which can allow lubricant into the compression chamber.

Spring bending isn't all that uncommon, and a little bit might have minimal effect on the gun. Can you post a picture? If the spring has a weak spot it might eventually break. Replacement springs should be available from UmarexUSA (pricey) or from Compasseco (for the TF89). I believe you might also be able to use a Norica spring from a Hammerli Razor or possibly a Storm, since the AR1000 design is a copy of a Norica gun.


Offline Traolach

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RE: Well, the specific reason for a spring to bend is...
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2008, 12:51:51 AM »
Well, the rifle was shooting fine - then a loud crack like a .22 long rimfire.  Then the rifle shoots rougher and has more recoil. The spring has what I would consider a mild bend - just enough to be discernable.  Doesn't seem to be any loss of power.

Offline palonej

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 03:01:49 PM »
T, just curious, what kind of pellet were you using when you heard the crack??? Be honest bro!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe

Offline Traolach

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 03:45:53 AM »
I was shooting Daisy wadcutters.  I know now - cheap in price and QUALITY.  But since the event, I have shot some RWS Meisterkugeln to check out the damage. Still, thr Daisy pellets were probably around 7 gr.  Still they should have been heavy enough not to cause undue stress.  Terry

Offline palonej

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Re: Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 04:25:28 AM »
T, 7 is actually quite light!! Heavy is 10.5 and over. Definitely was not the pellet that caused the damage unless it was a CRAZY tight fit.
Joe