Author Topic: I'm not one to discuss politics but...  (Read 6686 times)

Offline miked6762

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RE: Not much 'leadership' skill in democrats OR the others.
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2008, 03:47:47 PM »
The only thing that scares me more than big government is big buisness. We're all feeling the results. The rich get richer, and the poor get prison.

Offline miked6762

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 05:02:30 PM »
McCain has proven many things in his 26 year polital career. Mostly that he will ask how high, everytime a bush family member tells him to jump. He's proven that rampat corruption is an aceptable form of goverment. He's also proven that spending 5 years in a pow camp =geat foreign relations. The man is not much different that Bush. He'll say anything to get ahead. He is completely owned by big business--mostly the oil companies. He's so deep in corporate americas pockets, that if he is elected, Nothing will change. It's common sense; if you like the state of our great country as it is; vote for McCain. Check his voting record, and you'll see where he reallly stands. On the other hand, If you think we need a change, vote the other way.
I love it here. I've been a citizen of what was, and can again be the greates country in the world. I served in the army (2/505th ABN INF. 82nd ABN DIV) and would fight to defend her to my death But something has got to change. Ceo's take home millions while american children starve. Our young men and women die while politicians play golf. Nurses, Paramedics, Law enforcement, and Teachers struggle to live due to poverty level salaries while athletes, actors, and politicians become even more wealthy. Basic healthcare is unavailbe to many. The ER I work in has so many "free clinic" patents that our wait can top 6 hours.  They have no where to go bcause they either have no benefits from work, of they have been sut over and over agian. The dollar has taken control of thei country. Something has got to change.
Some one has pulled the wool over our eyes.

As a postscript, I apologise if anyone is offended by this retort. I am a patriot, and it hurts me to see what is being done to our country. I usually shy away from political and religious converstation, but lately I find myself in them more and more often.

Offline TCups

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2008, 12:51:56 AM »
. . . whereas some believe that when the dollar and free enterprise are the controlling factors, instead of politicians and big government, then capitalism is at it's best and all Americans benefit.  Villainize, regulate, and tax big business, put your faith in big government to supply all your needs including health care, cheap gasoline, etc. etc. and see what kind of "change" occurs and where American jobs and benefits go.  "Wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhhh.   Bush lied", ect, etc.  Hey, Mike, Bush isn't on the ballot in 2008.  "Where's my good job?  Where's the free health care I'm entitled to (and don't expect me to have to wait!)?"

You might want to pause to reflect what the real issues facing all Americans really are, what "change" is truly needed, and vote accordingly.  If you think Americans "can't drill our way out of this", that free enterprise and profitable businesses, including oil companies, are inherently evil, and that Americans can trust bigger government to regulate and tax businesses and the rich, because this is the best way to assure prosperity and equality for all, then, sir, you are a socialist, not a capitalist -- and Obama is certainly your man.  You might want to read some Thomas Sowell and think about it carefully.  Please.

And like Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that."  Signing off this thread.



Offline CharlieDaTuna

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2008, 02:07:02 AM »
Well said Tommy. America needs to step back and look at the real issues and what really needs to be done to resolve our problems. Then we need the right person to lead us out of this mess.  :)   Now then... where did I put my tire guage???? :D
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Offline moe1942

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2008, 02:48:48 AM »
Bob I think your tire gauge is next to your tune-up manual..

Offline Curioguy

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2008, 03:43:18 AM »
Being in the pockets of big business has always puzzled me because the left always uses the term “big business” or “big oil” as being evil.  So, while I’m thinking about it, why not add “special interests” to the list of evil doers.  Seems like where John McCain gets contributions from evil big business, B.O. gets his from evil special interests. Or, is it that some contributors are more acceptable to the left?  OK it’s just semantics (JUST WOORRRDS).



http://opensecrets.org/pres08/indus.php?id=N00009638&cycle2=2008&goButt2.x=10&goButt2.y=5

http://opensecrets.org/pres08/indus.php?id=N00006424&cycle2=2008&goButt2.x=4&goButt2.y=6



As you can see from the above links, B.O. receives more $$$ in contributions than does J.M.   I wonder what that means when it becomes payback time???

Let us not be naïve, because this is politics.  It is a dirty and highly competitive profession and for those hoping for some messianic light weight to come along and CHANGE the landscape, I have some swamp land for you to buy in Florida that produces a million barrels of oil a day.


Offline miked6762

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2008, 05:20:03 AM »
Sir, as you so politely insinuated, I do not believe that free enterprise, capialism, and big buisnsses are "inherently evil". I also do not believe that the government is going to save us. I do belive that our goveronment is owned by corporate america, and panders to them at great cost to americam people I do believe that all americans are being taken advantage of by both our government and corporate america. Oh wait, they're the same people. If in fact that does make me  a "socialist" as you so elegantly slandered; then I gues that 's better than being a fascist.
And yes the bush family is in this election; they just have a different frontman.

Offline miked6762

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2008, 05:24:54 AM »
And just as a footnote; I do really love airguns, and being able to be a part of this forum. Isn't that why we're alll here? Maybe we can have different views and beliefs. Maybe as they say, "We agree to disagree"? Now on to the important stuff---Let's go shoot some airguns.

Offline Izzie45895

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2008, 06:10:47 AM »
Mike,
I think that's what Tommy was doing - agreeing to disagree. Stating his position, and quite eloquently as usual.  If you didn't want to debate your position publicly, why did you even post it? One trait I see in all Liberals is that they are willing to state their opinion, but when asked to debate that position, the subject gets changed or closed. Besides this IS the back room. Why change the subject here to airguns/shooting?
I don't think Tommy was trying to disrespect you as I am not.
I find these debates very interesting and enlightening. Hell, maybe one day someone may even prove to me that my position is wrong. I'm more of a Libertarian than anything else, and an independant voter. I think America has too big of a presence in the world. Much too much of our GNP is spent 'protecting' and 'helping' other countries, instead of our own people. If my taxes were being used for that purpose, I would be much happier(and my taxes would be lower too). We need to take a step back to the prevalent isolationism of pre WWII.
I've said for a long time that government has become an entity in and of itself - complete with survival instincts. Osama Obama is just another pawn of that entity. It really matters not in the long run WHO gets elected. In the big picture nothing will change. I do believe that if he gets elected, I'll still be working my butt off, he'll just be taking a bigger chunk of my earnings for the 'welfare' generation. I don't have a problem with helping folks that need it - just take it out of the part of the budget given to other countries. I do, however' take issue with the fact that government feels it has to have complete control of me and what I do. That it has to protect me from myself, and that is a large part of the liberal credo. As long as you give people what they want you are able to control them. That position will be furthered even more if a Democrat is elected president. ESPECIALLY Osama.
Hell, McCain is the most liberal Republican ever seen in this country - I would have thought every Democrat in the country would be supporting him!

Tommy, keep up the good fight! You say it so much better than I ever could.

Iz

Offline Big_Bill

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2008, 06:32:25 AM »


Hey Guys,



Lets all agree, to disagree with one another. I will always research a subject before entering an opinion, I do not quote opinions and out right lies from the opposition, Someone ounce said: If a Lye is told often enough, it becomes the truth !



Well Politicos tell the best lies, and the most lies, every time ! And I do believe the same people that run the Republicans, run the Democrats. No difference between them at all, they just try to become elected by telling there people what they want to hear. Then, the real powers know how far they can push the sheep !



Yep, the two party system was created to control, and eliminate the opposition, Just L00K at what they have been giving us to consider for president ! Are these, the best of the best ?!?!?!?



We are all in the same fix, and they hope we never realize it, that way they can continue to run Our Nation the way They Want to !



Wake up America ! It may already be too late.

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Offline miked6762

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2008, 06:47:07 AM »

I don't believe that Obama is going to save the country. I'm an independant voter, not a Democrat. I would call myself a liberal conservative, or a conservative liberal. It will sound to a lot like I am sitting on the fence. It really means that I vote for whoever I think will do the best job based on my personal set of beliefs and values; which I must say are not the same as all others  If I am unfamiliar with two candidates, then I vote for the new guy--because I believe that change is good. This being the country that it is; We are allowed and encouraged to have those differences. As far as debating my position. Sen. McCain was absent from every energy vote cast since the latest gas crunch. Why didn't he show up? My theory is that if he voted, he would have to side with the current administration, which would hurt his chances with the voters. Sen. McCain has been working is politics for 26 years, and I think his record shows exactly where his interests are. McCain says that he is the most liberal republican in the party. He claims to be the "maverick republican", but his voting record does not back up this claim. McCain has very long term relationships with the Bush family. It is also pretty common knowledge that the Bush family had buisness relationship with nazi germany during WWII. You can also find that the Bush family are partners in oil/energy with varying Saudi organizations.
Remember 8 years ago? The national budget was balanced!  
 Yes, Obama is just another pawn. The question, unfortunately is; Who will do the least amount of damage?. Obama is young and inexperienced. Hopefully that will equate to less corrupt. In truth, I wanted the opportunity to vote for a different candidate, but it was not to be.
Really; It was not my intention to anger or offend. My apologies to any who feel slighted.  I am not trying to change anyone elses view(s)--just expressing mine.
Next time I really will stay out of it.

Offline miked6762

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2008, 07:28:30 AM »
-sure hope I'm not the one quoting "opinions and outright lies from the opposition", but I do agree with what you just wrote , Bill.

Offline TCups

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RE: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2008, 08:06:44 AM »
Mike:
I like it here too.  And I mean no disrespect.  I think you can really learn a bit if you do take the time to look up Thomas Sowell and read up on capitalism and socialism.

Obama has also proven many things in his 140-day Senatorial career and current Presidential campaign. . . but lets not go there.

Like you, I love it here.  I am a citizen of what IS  now and will continue to be the greatest country in the world, God willing.  I have not served in the military, but had my draft number come up, I would have done so to the best of my ability.  I thank you and thank every American serving in the military, past and present.

I congratulate and feel proud for any athlete, actor, CEO or any other honest American who works hard, succeeds and becomes wealthy doing so.  Their success almost certainly has nothing to do with any other’s lack of wealth or poverty.  Quite the contrary: it is that top tier, the 5% of wealthiest Americans who carry over 50% of America’s tax burden and provide the lion’s share of funding for social services to the underprivileged in this country and others.  God knows, America need some more of them.  

Wealth is good, and there should be more incentive earn and keep what you earn, not the disincentive of higher taxes to provide entitlements and handouts to those on the government dole.  So, I will gladly vote for any politician who chooses to pander to business, particularly those providing essential services and commodities like energy and oil, instead of those who pander to those on the government dole.  But if I understand the definition of pander, what government does for my business and, I suspect, ever other business, large or small, brings to mind a much different verb than pander.

PS:  If Thomas Sowell is too far to the right for your taste, you might read another author with both literary and economic expertise:  P. J. O'Rourke's "Eat the Rich"

It’s easy to be generous with someone else’s money, the American taxpayer’s money.   This escalating scheme of unfettered tax and spend politics will surely hamstring businesses,  cripple the economy, cost American's their jobs,and ultimately bankrupt this country,  If America is going in the wrong direction and needs a change, then in my opinion, the change need to be a hard turn to the right, not to the left.  Jimmy Carter and Ronald Regan taught me this lesson the hard way, back in the 1980's.

And pardon me if I mistake socialist rhetoric for socialism.  Just my capitalistic faux pas.  Sorry.

Air gunzzzzz, etc.


Offline HNT5

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RE: One issue to look at
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2008, 02:37:31 PM »
With both candidates is their stance on ,but more importantly their past voting record on gun ownership/ 2nd Amendment legislation. As we all know airgun ownership can be outlawed, or restricted just like firearms. Any candidate up for office can say he/she supports sportsman, hunting gun owners etc. Hell many even set up photo ops in real tree camo with a few locals to look good. But look at how they vote when they've been in office.

Nathan
"Too late to debate, too bad to ignore...Quiet rebellion leads to open war"

Offline jeep98

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Re: I'm not one to discuss politics but...
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2008, 05:07:19 PM »
Gentlemen; I am reading the same debate in this forum that is put forward in other forums. Go to the Rule Book, The Constitution of the United States of America and you will see that you can not vote for either of these candidates as they do not support it. Many have sworn (military) to defend the Constitution of The United States and yet can vote for these deceivers. Not I, never again. I have found it pays not to debate, so please just consider what I have expressed with no feedback necessary. Jeep98