HW30S Dieseling - enough of that smell!

[TCups]

Well, after about 200-300 rounds, the HW30S was still shooting sweetly, but it definitely smelled like the electric train I had as a kid -- you know, the one you put a drop of oil down the smokestack so it would puff white smoke as it chugged around the track.  No detonation ever audible, no smoke visible, but my nose finally got tired of the smell of burning oil after every shot.  

So I tore the rifle down this evening and though there was no visible damage to the piston seal or any apparent galling of the tube, there was more than a little thick, gunky blackend grease on the wrong side of the piston to be sure.  After a careful clean up with LectraClean (trichloroethylene) degreaser, a bit of crosshatching, another cleaning, burnishing the tube with a bit of moly paste, a bit of polishing and de-burring a few sharp edges, insertion of a Maccari spring and guide, a careful lube job, and reassembly with LockTite and teflon tape in all the right places, re-cleaning the barrel with GooGone, and remounting and zeroing the scope, the HW30S is now shooting as sweetly as ever. And after the first 10 or 12 pellets (fingers crossed) NO MORE DIESEL SMELL!!! (But so much for the warranty, I guess).  The HW30S action is somewhat different from the R9, but overall, a bit easier to work on.  About three hours start to finish.  Not too bad for a rookie.  Goodnight.

[Progun]

A Job to be proud of Tommy. Saalute!

[3n00n]

I'd like to hear about some chrony numbers a couple of tins from now.

When will that be? Weekend, or sooner?

[TCups]

Plan to blaze away this weekend.  Will be heading to NC.  Brother Jerry coming in from TX.  Your water running yet?

[3n00n]

Someone recommended an 'Iron Curtain', so I'm looking into one, and we'll see what I can do toget it allworking correctly.

[HNT5]

Hey! I had one of those trains as a kid! Wow talk about going back. Sounds like you did a great job on the HW 30S.

Best Regards

Nathan

[TCups]

J
Only a couple of dozen pellets since cleaning, re-springing and also thoroughly cleaning the barrel with GooGone.  Prelim, looks like it is now shooting FTS's at 589-612 w/ best guesstimate (didn't record numbers, shot about 8 or 10 shots freehand) is about 605 FPS, avg, which means down 10-12 FPS from factory stock numbers, initially.  Will see if velocities pick back up a bit as the barrel re-seasons and the new spring and lube set in.  Also, more apparent variability in FPS (at least with these few shots) than before, but again, I was shooting freehand instead of benched & over the chrony/ tripod at 8-10 feet from the muzzle.  At least it doesn't smell bad.

[BumbleShot]

Hey TCups,
    Do you have any links to guides in breaking down the R7/HW30?  Although my R7 shoots like an angel stock, if I could see a break-down procedure somewhere, I might feed the urge to re-lube it myself.

   Also, Paul Watt's website lists a horror story of issues with new R7s, like defective safety, over lubing, damaged seals, etc.  Did your experience match that information/opinion?  I'm not suggesting a home tune would approach or equal what PW does, but did you find issues with the factory treatment in any way?

   Lastly, I hope your HW shoots like a dream!

Thanks

[TCups]

Neil:

Sorry, guy.  You have obviously mistaken me for the type of person who reads the instructions before attempting something mechanical.  I just worked my way through the process, with the experience gained working on the BAM B26.  I thought briefly about taking some pictures of the process, but then there was all that grease and I didn't really want to handle my camera at the same time.  It's not too hard.  I could talk you through it . . . but . . . I don't know your level of experience . . . and . . . you proceed at your own peril.
1)  Don't even start if you don't have the right tools, parts and lubes ready at hand, and a well lighted, place to work.  A full set of gunsmith's screwdrivers, and a decent set of punches and drifts with at least one or two small brass punches, a full set of metric allen drivers, and at least a Torx T9 driver bit are required.  A spring compressor is required.
2)  I have it on good authority that given even the slightest hint of something as minor as the owner taking the action out of the stock, the manufacturers will gleefully void the warranty, so be advised, should you decide to give it a try.

Here's a pic of what I've done with the spare bedroom, AKA, gun room, AKA "man cave"

[BumbleShot]

I deburred and lubed a Quest1k (B19) and the thing shoots and cycles much better.  

I have all the right lubes and such, but the idea of building or buying or dealing with a spring compressor is why Mike Melick is tuning up a b26 for me!  Sometimes a professional is worth every penny they charge you (accountant, lawyer, doctor, car mechanic, springer tuner!)

I think I will just enjoy the R7 stock for a few years!  How many inches did the spring protrude once it is detentioned?

I was briefly tempted into tuning my Webley Tempest pistol, and decided it's probably better left alone or to a pro!

My R7 is my baby!  Your reply has disuaded me from tinkering with perfection (at least to me!)

Thanks

[TCups]

Well, if the biggest hurdle is the spring compressor, that's not too hard to overcome.  They're actually not to hard to make, and that task, I can easily take you through.  As for Mike Melick, you're correct.  He does the BAM rifles faster, better and cheaper than anyone else, so why would you need to do that yourself?  But as far as just carefully cleaning and lubricating the mechanism of a springer, that really isn't rocket science, but it isn't a custom tune, either.

[DanoInTx]

My R7 should be home on Friday, will try the same with that hombre.  Gots me a spring compressor and the proper JM lubes, look out, here I come:)

[TCups]

Dan:

The mainspring, once compressed, is released by a single screw in the distal end of the tube just in front of the two pins that hold the Rekord trigger (can't remember if it is on the right or left).  Pay attention to it's location, as once you get the mechanism in the compressor, you will have to have it positioned to be able to reach that screw to back it out and release the trigger block & spring.  On re-assembly, be very careful to get this exactly re-aligned before trying to re-insert the screw, else you might damage the threads.  And if you haven't taken out a Rekord trigger before, be careful not to lose the small spring that comes out loose with the safety button once the trigger is dropped out.  Also, be  careful not to lose the small nut on the back of the trigger group that receives the smaller of two bolts, the one in the rear of the trigger guard.  If this nut comes loose and drops out, then when you get almost to the end of the job, and try to re-attach the trigger guard, the small screw has no threads to screw into (oops) and you have to take everything back apart and remove the trigger again to slip the nut back in place (presuming it hasn't been lost).  The factory-tightened bolts holding the barrel and the forearm stock on my rifle were as tight as a tick, and had broad-slotted heads -- it would be very easy to bugger them up if you don't use a proper fitting gunsmith's screwdriver.  One other nuance of the HW30S - the cocking arm runs through a bracket on the underside of the tube. The base of the bracket is threaded to anchor the screw holding the forearm of the stock, and it also has a transverse pin that acts as a horizontal guide for the underside for the cocking arm.  The guide pin has to be knocked out to allow enough vertical clearance in the bracket to be able to drop the arm out of the cocking slot and disengage it from the piston. Have fun and be careful.

[cliffspot]

Got a good tutorial on the Pyramid air "Repair" site. Posted it a few months back...is there a search function in this forum? Here you go bro!
http://www.airguninfo.com/repairs.shtml
Look in the righthand column under 'Beeman'; "Tuning The R7" is the one I used and it came out PERFECT!

[TCups]

C. Lloyd:

Thanks for the post.  I also read with interest the article just above it: "R7 Tune Page" by Paul Watts.  He goes right down the list of all the things I saw wrong in my HW30S.  Indeed, my piston looked like the one in his picture -- covered with burned grease.  And galling of the underside of the tube from the cocking lever was already apparent.  Since the latter wasn't externally visible, I just put some moly paste on the point of metal to metal contact, but that is really a half fast solution.

After reading Paul's comments, it is apparent to me that I have made at least one major, glaring omission on my first attempt to DIY tune the HW30S -- I didn't button the piston.  The fit of the seal to the piston is, indeed, loose, just as PW indicates.  So having cleaned out the excess lube, it appears with the stock seal, unless the piston gets buttoned, over time, the piston is going to rattle around, contact the sides of the tube and cause galling with irreparable damage -- even with the Maccari spring and guide.  

Guess I need to order up some more old school piston buttons from JM and plan on a re-do with some careful attention to polishing and buttoning the piston and putting a top had on the spring. . . or else, just drop the factory spring back in it and send the HW30S to Paul Watts ASAP for a custom tune so I can actually get the seal replaced with a more proper fitting seal.

Grrrrrrrrrr.  Gotta love the quality and workmanship of the German air guns, right!?  Sweet shooting as this little gun is, major design & workmanship flaws have just been covered up by slathering a bunch of grease around the inside of the tube.  Caveat emptor.