Back inside the Walther Falcon Hunter

[daveshoot]

Took all weekend to put it back together, but the Walther is a shooter once more. I forgot what a hammer this thing is, it really launches the lead.

I did not like some of what I found, and I don't think you would either. There are some massive parts to this gun, with a huge top hat, and some things to like, but some are things are either inexplicable or unforgiveable. I can say it feels a lot better to shoot, now.

1. I posted about the scrap metal and shavings stamped into the seal earlier. Traces of scoring from all this loose steel were evident throughout.
2. Also mentioned the bent to heck follower slide.
3. The "Walther" guns we are getting have changed from the earlier Hatsan 125 shown in the Russian websites. Now the trigger lever is plastic, too, along with the trigger itself.
4. The plastic butt cap on the spring guide is molded with an odd step (probably a poor mold fit), where it mates with the spring guide washer. Since there is a plastic washer between this and the steel washer, it is only a matter of time before this gives and breaks in half. I glued up a spacer/adapter out of neoprene washers from Home Depot, one cut in half to fill the void.
5. The muzzle... well, it could have been formed this well with paleolithic flint tools. I did the best I could to crown, but the rifling is recessed.
6. Bore: I can't get a good picture of this, but there are weird chatter marks at intervals down most of the barrel, really ragged looking. The thing is fairly accurate in my limited testing, so maybe lead fouling fills this mess. I am going to try a fire lap next.

One more thing: the tutorials here: http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/index.html are very helpful. The Daisy 1000 is a very similar Hatsan model, and if you ever find yourself in the middle of one of these, these guides are great.

[Progun]

Dave, thanks for taking the time to give us this inside look. It's amazing that these guns shoot as good as they do in spite  of so much coarseness. Your comments about the barrel I find interesting. I have the .177 version Talon Magnum and the barrel on mine doesn't appear to have visible tooling marks. In fact it appears so glossy that it looks like it has been lapped and finished. Much better in fact than my Diana's,Gamo's,Crossman and Beeman's. Lucky barrel day at the factory I guess.I did find some metal flakes in mine also but in spite of the warts the gun is an accurate 21+fpe thumper.

[timofb]

Guys from what I understand hatsan 135 is a much more refind model.

[Gene_SC]

Again thanks for the inside look. That thing is a mess. The crown if you want to call it a crown.. is a mess and needs special attention before it can really be efficient. Looks like the piston has been beating itself to death. Was the metal chips lead or steel? Did you find where they came from?

Great post Dave and thanks again.

Gene

[Capt. Capsize]

Great pics, very clear and sharp.  Makes me wonder if I should disassemble and inspect my Gamo shadow and RWS 34 before I put too many more shots through them.

[daveshoot]

I'm sure I will be keeping the gun (I would say warranty is thoroughly voided now) and I have invested a lot of time in it. The trigger is better now and the firing cycle is smoother. Cocking is vastly imroved.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the chrony numbers, but I need to shoot it in a little more.

My attempts to photograph the bore were not very successful, but I suppose if the marks are in the grooves rather than on the rifling, they would not have as much effect.  I will try the firelapping anyway.

3 other tips that helped a lot from the RSE link:
Replaced spring between upper and lower sear with ballpoint pen spring of equal length.
Glued one end of this spring to the lower sear to ease reassembly.
Cut off 3/8" long piece from a 3//16 drill bit to use as a temporary pin for upper sear. You drive it out with the real pin after the trigger assembly is installed (the cutoff piece holds it in place but fits up through the assembly housing). Brilliant.

I am wondering about filling the stock with foam. The sound isn't really bothering me so far, but it might be better with some spray in Great Stuff.

There wasn't much preload on the spring but the last inch is heavily compressed. I counted 43 coils but some said 44 (coulda been the whiskey).
Spring wire was .138 diameter. OD of coil was .80", ID about .54.
The transfer port measured .155". Seemed rather large and I guess it would have to be.

Bearing surfaces of the piston OD had severe machining rings and burred edges. I honed this in direction of travel.
Plastic lever shown in trigger housing had what looks like a poor mold fit. There is a longitudinal knit line around the piece, and the halves are offset slightly, causing one side to be raised from the other.
Overall I went pretty light on trigger components, just touching with hone or 1500 grit.

timofb, this is the divine justice for having recommended MP513 to you, and then you got a bad one. Appreciate the note on the 135, but I think my next mag will be the B28 in .22. I am going to let Hatsan catch up to BAM in the QA department and it will be a while before I try another one, especially at these prices.
It is a wonderful learning experience and the WFH is probably still at the upper end of what is possible and practical in spring propulsion power.

[daveshoot]

All the metal is steel, and responds to a magnet. It was stomped into the seal originally, and there is a nick where another piece was bent over the edge. Dunno where it came from, although there is a low area in the button area that holds the seal that might be part of it. The finer metal shavings were also inside the piston itself.
I reused the seal, of course... not an off the shelf item and good enough for the job, for now. The nick doesn't extend down the side so it will still hold air.

[swynn]

looks just like what I found in mine ...nice pics and nice job on spacer....I took another aproch and used the drimal on the shelf and used a washer to make up the difference ....Igot in touch with umerex,they have no replacement parts , as of two weeks ago..I wanted a new piston seal and breech seal..the rifle shoots hard and very acurate..Ihave a new chrony on the way,will try to post some numbers..have you shot over the chrony yet? I realy like the rifle,helped a lot to fill the stock with foam,not to mention removing the metal shaving and deburing...Just my two cents ...Have fun with it...

[daveshoot]

You know, I am going to call Umarex on that seal also. Maybe if they hear from a number of us, they can get a couple bags of seals shipped over.

I posted quite a few chrony results a few weeks ago along with some groups (mostly in the mid-8s), but I haven't redone it since the lube. I wouldn't take the new numbers too seriously until it wears in a little, but I shot about 20 rounds last night and it is really cookin'.

Here were the old numbers prior to surgery: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9622&posts=11&highlight=walther&highlightmode=1#M75498

[swynn]

I like those numbers,but I bet thier even higher now...I have over a thousand round thru mine now ...not as sinsative to hold as it was or maybe Ive found the right hold ...Man it shoots hard for a springer ..Brought down three pigions over the weeked ..I scoped mine with a 4-16-50 Leaper....Umerex took my phone number and said they would give me a call...but havent yet . I think ill call them back tomarrow also.....My WFH like the cp and cphollow point best.

[erskine]

I bought mine from Pymarid, on the evaluation of whomever it is that makes all the reports on that site.

Mine is sitting on the bench in the garage and I have decided that I am going to pitch the mess into the trash.  Dave, if you want it, I will ship it to you no charge.

This rifle is garbage at best and sheite at worst...  After about three weeks the plastic stock split at the "reverse" threaded screws.  The plastic trigger was, and never became, anything that could shoot worth a darn.

Mine is a .25.  If you want it Dave, I will give it to you, and pay for shipping.  The stock is in the trash.  The action is intact.  The trigger is disassembled, and I have to say I will be more careful when I read the advice I see on the pymarid site.

My Dianna 48, on the other hand, tuned by Charlie, now THAT is a rifle.

Thanks Charlie.  Wish you were doing more.  I would order a .25 from Germany and hand it to you for the tune.

That Falcon is a kit gun, at best.

[erskine]

She shoots hard but she can't hit a pie tin at fifty yards.

[mikeiniowa]

I just finished the work on the one I have in the shop, no problem getting a new seal for the piston. This one wasn't as bad internally as yours, a fix for the trigger is to remove the OE screw and replace it with a longer one, works good after adjustment..thanks for all the pics. I guess I'll work on them if i have to but would perfer not too.....

[erskine]

mikeiniowa - 9/8/2008  5:24 PM

I just finished the work on the one I have in the shop, no problem getting a new seal for the piston. This one wasn't as bad internally as yours, a fix for the trigger is to remove the OE screw and replace it with a longer one, works good after adjustment..thanks for all the pics. I guess I'll work on them if i have to but would perfer not too.....

I think they are so variable in their QC that one can't make any assumptions about them.  I added the longer screw on the trigger and it helped but my trigger was unsafe if I adjusted the screw to the point that I had a decent let off.  It was breaking at about seven pounds.

Honestly, this rifle is a kit gun.  Buy it and give it to a man like you, who can spend half a day fooling with it to make it shoot...  OR BUY SOMETHING THAT SHOOTS OUT OF THE BOX for the same total cost.

I'm upset, obviously.  Just been spoiled.  My R10 was tuned in the Beeman shop back in 86 or 87, and my Dianna just shot good out of the box.  I would not spend a nickel on one of these Falcons.  Not when I could drop another hundred and get another Dianna.

...

My bad... sorry.  Just venting.

[daveshoot]

I would take that and compensate you well. I am at a business dinner just now, but if you're serious I will contact you later tonight.
If you salvage that stock, I will take it, too.