Talon SS to 9mm?

[kcurrie]

Hah, I knew I'd get a response like that :-)  Hell, people in Texas here hunt hogs with just dogs and knives, which sounds just crazy-- much more so than a crossbow backed up by a 12 gauge with a slug :-)

I've got the good health plan-- it will come in handy to stitch up my legs after I'm gored. Thanks for the advice :-)

[jon]

I'm sure J will be along soon to tell you just how much more powerful a big bore airgun is compared to a 22.  I'm sure J wouldnt back me up on the other opinion but thats fine, my opinions arent always in line with other hunters either.

Guys over at airgunadvice.com have proved you wrong and showed just exactly how tough hogs are 2 trips to a hog ranch, and everyone killed a hog with airguns much less powerful than what the original poster mentioned in a talon.  1 Hog was killed with a 40 FPE rapid PCP.  It weighed well over 100 pounds.

Hell, in my neck of the woods people catch them with their bare hands with a little help from a pitt bull and a knife.

Besides, do you really honestly think a 200-500 grain slug fom an airgun moving at say 700-800 fps has less penetratration and exansion that a little tiny 40 grain .22lr bullet going about 1,200 fps?  I guess you never heard of a 50-70 or a 45-70 blackpowder cartridge before.  I cant argue with ignorance, nevermind you are the expert.

[melloroadman]

Just remember they are like over grown possums . Head counts don't count . There is not enough gray matter in it . The heart is the place to hit and would I with my 9. mm Career ? When and if I get good enough with it to know every shoot is going to go were I need it to go then yes . Until then no not unless I have a trusting back up person along . I'm to old to run and climb trees .Marvin

[johncedarhill]

They will be singing your praises for years to come like Davy Crockett. Of course you could just "grin" him or her into submission. As I recall Rambo got one with a knife but he did build a pit. Sorry I just could not resist. BTW the link I supplied to Impact Air Guns picture is a 600 pounder as I recall.

[DanoInTx]

.....ok, so I've never got one, but IF I DID get one with nothing more than a piece of bailing wire to wrap around its neck, then, well, THAT would be something:)

[melloroadman]

N/T

[Jaymo]

I'll be your backup for hunting hogs with an airgun. I'll be about 30 ft back and 30 ft to one side, with my .444 Outfitter and my .44 mag Redhawk. I may even bring my Buckingham gaffs, saddle, and flipline, because feral hogs are ill tempered and well armored. I'd shoot a small hog with a big bore PCP, but nothing over 150 pounds. Even then I'd have my .44 as a backup.
I want to shoot one with my .50 cal flintlock, and even with that, I'd have the .44 as a backup, and some good running shoes, or my climbing gear.

[Jaymo]

Have you actually seen what their tusks do? They look dull but they're sharp and cut just like straight razors. They don't gore you, they slash you. A cut femoral artery will kill you in less than a minute. Their tusks are at just the right height.  Like my dad always said, If everyone else was going to jump off a cliff, would you?
You have to remember, domestic hogs go feral quickly. They grow hair and tusks ofter within a couple of months of getting loose. Big difference between shooting one of those hairy former domestic hogs on a canned hunt, and hunting a true feral hog on a real hunt. Remember, stupid is as stupid does. Going after a hog with a pit bull and a knife is uber stupid. It may be a great way to feel like Billy Bad@ss, but it's a great way to get yourself killed. Do you realize that Hogs will EAT you?  I'm not talking Hollywood BS either. I'm talking about real people. My ex-girlfriend had an uncle who had a heart attack while feeding his (domestic, tame) hogs. By the time he was found, the hogs had eaten half of him.
People have killed moose with .22LR but that doesn't mean we need to be fool enough to try.

[melloroadman]

Jeremy you are right in what you say . But most of these kills are men perched in tree stands or tie in trees and shooting at a pig they have laid food out for at a distance of less than 5 yards. There is a big difference in being at ground level with this dangerous animal while out shooting squires or what ever .Marvin

[daved]

I never claimed to be an expert, and calling me ignorant is just being rude.  "Well over 100 pounds" tells me we're talking apples and oranges, you're talking wild pigs while I'm thinking boar.  Although even then, I consider taking a 100+ pound animal with a 40 fpe rifle irresponsible, but that's my OPINION, nothing more.  In other words, I wouldn't do it in anything but a survival situation.  And BTW, a stock Talon isn't a 40 fpe rifle, so I don't know what you mean by rifles "much less powerful".  Are you and your pals shooting pigs with springers?

I asked you to cite your sources, and you bring in the venerable 45-70 Gov't.  The standard black powder loading was a 405 gr. bullet at approx. 1300 fps, that's over 1500 fpe.  A Dragon Slayer launches a 200 gr. slug at around 570 fps, that's only 144 fpe.  And your numbers of 40 gr. at 1200 fps works out to 128 fpe.  So what's your point?  You made some statements that I asked you to back up with something other than your opinion, instead of doing so, you make irrelevant comments and get rude.  And I notice that J is conspicuous by his absence from this discussion, although I'm certainly willing to accept him as an expert when it comes to big bores.  In the future, it might behoove you to have a few facts on tap before calling someone else ignorant.  Later.

Dave

[3n00n]

Rain and water problems beenslowing me down, and I oftenget on the keyboard whenrain happens.

`

I'm sure Jon is referring to Taylor knock out values. Alot of difference between a small high velocity slug and a larger lower velocity slug.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/tkochart.html

`

Animals are made up of primarily water, and the larger thehydraulic displacement, the higher the 'knockout' value. Another interesting thing is velocity versus the target depth. Thicker targets absorb more energy, and if the slug stops just under the skin on the opposite side of the quarry, then it typically won't run at all. A few hundred fpe will knock the wind out of most critters, and with a terminal wound channel, there is little likelihood of the animal 'getting back up' once it has fallen.

`

Would I hunt hog with a 9mm Condor? Probably as effective as a Fire 201. Would I hunt hog with an Airhog .25"cal Condor? With the Airhog Condor printing 1" groups at 105 yards, I'd feel safe in precision shot placement, so again, yes.

`

Would I hunt hog with a Talon? Probably not, since the valve doesn't flow fast enough, or with enough air volume to create energy levels that I consider sufficient for hog.

`

40 fpe does seem kinda low for hog, although with excellant shot placement, would be terminal. Both points have validity, and my real concern when hunting is terminal performance. The .457" DAQ pistol is shooting a 500grain slug at 650fps, so I really don't feel that velocity is king. At 450+fpe the power isn't on the level as the .457" BBBob Destroyer shooting a 370grain slug at about 900fps, but the ram dropped and the bunny ran. What does that mean? Not much, because both were terminal shots, but I didn't have to follow bloodtrail . . .

Not nearly as much hydraulic displacement on the bunny, though, because there is simplyless thereto displace.

[daved]

Thanks, J, I appreciate the response.  I've heard of the Taylor knock out values, and I'm also sure that's what Jon was referring to.  And I'd have had no issue if he'd posted that same link, or something similar.  And, despite my previous posts, I'm also well aware that a large low velocity slug can be much more effective than a small high velocity one, despite apparent energy similarities.

I just got peeved at his snotty attitude, when I said right at the beginning of my initial post that it was my OPINION that air rifles weren't suitable for hunting hogs.  Calling me ignorant when he can't be bothered to verify the facts behind his claims doesn't do much for his credibility.  I never claimed to be an expert, although when I do post something here, I either make sure my facts are verifiable, or make it clear I'm posting an opinion.  And the fact of the matter is, I've made it a point to learn a hell of a lot about air guns in the last 2+ years, either first hand or by reading and asking questions on the forums.  And I try to pass on what I've learned when I can.  But I'm pretty sure I've never called anyone ignorant, no matter how many times I've seen the same question, or disagreed with someone's information.  Anyway, thanks again.  Later.

Dave

[Jaymo]

I would just hate for any of the brethren to get grievously wounded or killed by a peeved porker, due to being under gunned. Accuracy is king but it won't do any good without enough power to penetrate through the vitals, preferably breaking both shoulders and crippling it, and deliver a quick, humane kill.

[DanoInTx]

.....that no-one took me seriously.  I have not, would not, could not, with a fox or in a box tackle a ferrel hog and try to strangle it with a piece of wire, I was joking, it just sounded like the "Rambo" thing to do.  Maybe if a were a Ninja I could kick him to death with my China flat shoes:)

[gamo2hammerli]

DanoInTx, you would be my new hero if you did that....