Author Topic: INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE?  (Read 2845 times)

Offline Scottdog

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INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE?
« on: November 08, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »


"We the people" let me repeat "We the people"have allowed the great sell off ofour "once" great nation.We once were free and independent from all other nations.Nowwe are as dependent as crack addicts.Cheap china goods ,saudi oil,the EU,even the new U.S.S.R has a huge hand in our pocket!Why?Did we think it would be good for "our "auto makers.Did we think it would help our toy makers or our growers.Even our water is being shipped in!What have "we" allowed.The only thing the people are independent from "now" is the government.Both sides of the fence are for globalism and I for one don't want it.I want Independence and Sovereignty.Like the days gone by!"They" did for them selves and that's what made "us" great.Now that we let others do for us we are shrinking ,Downsizing,withering!GOD HELP US ALL!but I fear not this time.I fear the fall is coming and we the people are to blame.Its easy to point fingers and say "they did it" like some school kids in the yard.But the real deal is WE ALL ARE TO BLAME!If the founding fathers would have tried some of the things done now "THE FOUNDING PEOPLE" would have "had at it".The founding people kept them founding fathers in check.I'm deeply sorry for this rant.I realy think THE FALL IS COMING!



How do you feel about independence and sovereignty?


Offline TCups

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Re: INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE? - No, Thanks.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 12:06:54 AM »
Mixing up some terms, I think.
Globalism?  Do you mean free trade, as in the opposite of Protectionism?  Cheap goods are a good thing and raise everyone's standard of living.  As I recall, it was interference with free trade through tariffs and taxes that fomented the first American revolution.  And the American colonies would never have survived without trade.

Sell off of the nation?  Do you mean allowing foreign investors to buy and own American property?  And for America to be a player in the global economy?  That is not necessarily a bad thing -- unless you mortgage America by the political expediency of trillions of dollars of deficit spending and then borrow the money from the Federal Reserve Bank (a bank that has absolutely nothing to do with the American "federal" government) and effectively let someone other than American voters set American financial policy.  Check into the history of the Federal Reserve System and what Woodrow Wilson said about it.  Ever wonder where all the gold an silver went?  

When massive deficit spending and borrowing occurs, then it is the international banking community that holds all the notes and the power over our government.  When politicians buy votes with public projects, bail outs and entitlements, then borrow the money from the Federal Reserve, then the World Bank, or something very like it surely "owns" the American political system.  Which, I supppose, is what you mean by selling off independence and sovereignty.  It's like every single American having many thousands of dollars of debt on their international Visa bill -- now we just gotta argue over who is going to pay the monthly minimum payments.   We could default, I suppose, but then the international banking system might downgrade America's credit and the value of the dollar, and by so doing, essentially confiscate the wealth of every American investor.  Do you wonder where the trillions of dollars of "wealth" that is represented by a fall of stock market values from around 12,000 to around 8,000 points on the Dow Jones actually went?  And by the way, who owns the world bank?  I'll have to ask Suros and some of the other billionaire banking fanciers I know that question the next chance I get.  I bet he knows.  And wasn't he helping to substantially finance one of the American Presidential candidates.  I forget . . .   Anyway, I think America's credit must be getting pretty thin, if the markets are any indication.

So, do you want to be independent and sovereign?  Get out of debt.  Want to get out of debt?  Quit borrowing.  Cut spending.  Raise tax revenues.  

Want to raise tax revenues?  Kenedy and Regan knew how, remember -- lower taxes, eliminate capital gains, encourage business and free enterprise here at home, drill here, drill now, etc.  Remember Jimmy Carter?  Remember Ronald Regan?  Remember the "go go 80's when America had it's own oil industry (Texans, Pennsylvanians, and Alaskans do, I'll bet).  Gone now.

Want to drive businesses out of America or out of business altogether?  Raise corporate taxes and set progressive income taxes at such confiscatory rates that it takes away the bulk of any financial incentive for entrepreneurs to take the risk of starting new American businesses on American soil with American workers, pay half their payroll taxes and provide them with medical care.  "No thanks, we'll just build that next factory in Mexico, or Korea, or China" -- labor is cheap and taxes are much lower than in America (2nd highest rate of corporate taxes in the world and soon to go up).  Sure GM and Ford are all for American goods and American jobs, they are just going bankrupt trying to compete with Korean and now, to a lesser extent, Japanese auto makers.  Or maybe we could just borrow the money to bail out Detroit, keep things going a few more years and go deeper into debt.  Wonder which option the Labor Unions prefer?

So I am for Independence and Sovereignty.  But there is a price for that.  It is a price we can pay by producing and selling American energy resources to Americans, and by promoting American businesses and American jobs by a more rational tax policy, and by downsizing government, and a price we pay by being more self sufficient instead of demanding government entitlements like free health care.  Let's think about that . . .  

No, thanks -- never mind.  Socialism sounds like the easier "change" -- just let the government take care of "us the people", institute social justice, and share the wealth -- New World Order.  New World Obama. That's the ticket!  I am going back to sleep now.

PS:  Socialism really is a "We the people" to "Us the people" shift, isn't it?  No longer are "we" responsible for ourselves, someone must now take care of "us".  A shift from active to passive, from responsibility and self determination to entitlement and victimization, from independence to serfdom.

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Offline gamo2hammerli

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Re: INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 01:50:28 AM »
Quebec, Canada have been trying for Independence since the early 50's.....and it's been causing havoc with Quebec and Canada's economy.  Now the Quebec Independence movement have resorted to calling it Sovereignty because Independence sounds too harsh....which basically means the same thing except it gets to use the Canadian currency (They hope!!!!).

Everytime the Quebec economy goes up....the Separatistes comes out of the woodwork screaming for "Our Own Country"...which drives down the economy because companies are moving out....and new companies don't want to take a chance to invest here.  The economy have been going up and down the last 30 something years.....  I and most people still believe that "United We Stand....Divided We Fall".
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Offline daveshoot

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RE: INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 02:46:38 PM »


I think world trade has been a part of our existence since the beginning. Heck, it was a big part of the beginning. Buying and selling with other nations is the lifeblood of commerce, and commerce (and the liberty to pursue it) is what the USA is all about. Yankee Clippers were the airplanes and supertankers of 1776.



Let's not confuse temporary imbalances or outrageous examples with the fundamentals. Without global commerce, we are a big irrelevant island short on resources. We have our fingers deeply in the pockets of others, too, if you choose to see it that way. America is still one of the most successful international trading nations in the world. We turn stuff into things, and things into stuff. We need that stuff. We are all interlinked and we always have been.



All the talk about the "weak dollar" should be understood, too. Yeah, it makes nice Euro airguns more expensive. It also makes our American-made products and produce more competitive overseas. This turns into wealth and jobs for Americans. It is what helps to equalize the imbalance in trade, at least in the short term.



We need to let companies invest more in America. We don't need the government to invest more in anything. They should just spend the massive budget they have more wisely. This was not part of the Constitutional vision and is something we now have to live with. Companies are us. Helping American companies compete is the best help we can get. Tax reform, tariff justice, and patent enforcement would do us more good in the long run.

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Offline 3n00n

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The dollar will be dead soon enough . . .
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 01:22:44 AM »

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY ANYONE? - No, Thanks.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 06:49:22 AM »
Hey T-Cups, if you will run for President in 2012 if I'm still alive I'll dang sure vote for you! Way to go buddy!