350 torquing

[daved]

Didn't notice this at first, maybe I overlooked it in the new gun excitement.  Whatever the case, I'm now getting quite a bit of spring torque.  Has anyone done a tune on one of these guns?  From what I can see from the exploded view diagram I have, it doesn't have a "top hat" like the Gamo's, but there is a spacer or washer of some kind at both ends of the spring.  If so, I'm wondering if a thrust bearing of some kind, like Rich has in his Gamo kits, would be workable.  Anyone know?  Or would a lube tune be sufficient?  Any suggestions would be much appreciated here, this thing is kind of hard to handle right now.  If I try a light hold, it almost jumps out of my hands, and it's almost impossible to follow through properly.  Even at low magnification, there's so much rifle movement that I can't keep sight of the target through the scope.  It definitely seems worse than when I first got it.  Thanks, guys.

Dave

[rabbit]

Daved,

     If the torqueing continues to worsen, I think I would call the manufacturer and see what they say. The number is 1 - 479 - 646 - 4210 . They have a lifetime warranty. Best of luck...

                                        Rabbit        

The Needle thrust bearings Timken makes they have them in all sorts of sizes I bet you can find one that would fit the rifle spring, they are only a little  more than 1/8 inch thick depending on what thickness washers you get, the washers  come in every size from .030  thickness  to .125 thickness.

This would put a end to spring torgue.

I wonder if I can put that into my gamo....

Sure I have them as an option in my tune kits.

Look here on my website

Oh duh, lol i  should have seen that. Now to figure out how to make a spring compresser ill be all set

[Gene_SC]

Did anyone see the new price list from Midsouth......... RWS 350 .22   $299.00 plus free shipping

Gene

[Gene_SC]

Ratite

It would seem to me that those thrust bearings are made for a lite amout of pressure forward and aft. In my 20 years in the truck component remanufacturing I was able to work with some of the big boys such as Rockwell, Eaton, Spicer, Borg Warner Manufactureing and testing.

Spicer and Eaton corp used those thrust bearings for a few years but found out that any sudden shock to the component would break the bearings apart. Then those small pieces would run through the other moving parts and start a rapid deterioration of the component.

The thrust bearings were ment for very light thrust and not shock or impact. So I would think by using them in a springer that they would eventually break down and?

Just my 2 cents..

Gene

I thought about that  and have been checking my b21 and  L egacy  for over a year with no sign of impact.

When I first started using them I used malleable buffer on the front bearing then realized there is no impact as the spring is not throwing the piston or bearing it it is pushing and if the pushing is done correctly there is an air buffer between the piston slamming into the receiver so there is no violent effect on the bearing
(If the gun is working correctly)

So I thought,,, what if the gun was not working as it was designed and do I really need the bearing in the front and the rear?

Hmmmm.

I removed the bearing from the front and ran the bearing in the rear of the spring the part of the spring that stays put with no banging it just kind of sits there twisting and grinding away with only lateral forces being applied,

 This is when I realized!! That’s what the bearing was intended for even though I still use the bearings for the front of my Legacy spring and over a year its still smooth as silk with no signs on impact damage or ware.

So for the most part I would use the bearings on the rear of the spring only! As springs really only need one side of the spring to not stick, grind and to stop  the twang from the sudden release of steel under torque.

But to get back the 350 it has 2 bearing races one on the top and one on the bottom of the spring if the gun is properly lubed the spring will not twist.

One thing to remember the RWS 350 is what the industry has determined is a true airgun magnum and no matter what field you’re in when the term magnum is used there will be a slight increase in difficulty of control give that bad boy some time let it break in  and give your self some time as well to learn to control the beast.

I have 2  RWS 350M 177 & 22 I like them very much and it took some time and effort to learn to shoot them its big its bad and it like to kick but dead on accurate and powerful in the springer world.

I hava had Timken needle bearing in my rifles for over a year and not a problem with them. They are not under a real big load or shock in the end of a air rifle piston, after all the piston stop is not a harsh as you think because of the air cushion at the end of the stroke.

I have also used them I my R.C. racing boats in the belt overdrive system, (which I.M.P.B.A. outlawed on me) at RPM's ove 28.000  without fairure, lubed olnly with the oil in there exhaust of the engines.

[Gene_SC]

I am only aware of Timken Bearings being of the cone style only. In the 70's through the 90's Timken only made tappered bearins. Things may have changed by now.

As far as the thrust bearings are concerned they were originally designe for light thrust and not to be used for a very high RPM of motion. As far as putting them in the front of the cylinder on a springer, with my past knowledge, I would never do it.. Just my opinion.

Gene

[Gene_SC]

I am not an engineer but I would think that if thrust washer was used in front of cylinder on springer the constant impact would break the bearing down. What I mean is the bearing cage would fall apart and the rollers would come out. But putting the thrust bearing in the rear of the cylinder then you would not have the impact. That would be safe I would think.

I have always had a rule of thumb about mechanics. The less moving parts the better.. So unless the thrust bearing made a significant difference in performance, I would not use them. But I am not an Air Gun Smith and can only logically determine certain factors from my past experience with bearings etc.

By the way Ratite, about the RWS 350. I have read allot of experienced post regarding this modle. Most comply with what you say about learning how to shoot it..

I do not know if my Gamo 1250 would be classified as a true magnum but it is one powerful springer. One that I would never want to be in front of if fired... hehe Same would probably go for the RWS 350.

Gene

I have shot a few 1000 pellets through a Leagcy with one of these top hats in it and still smooth as silk
Here I use a washer then a bearing and then another washer in this custom Legacy tophat

Direct from SKF bearing website.

Needle roller thrust bearings  
 
 
Needle roller thrust bearings can support heavy axial loads, are insensitive to shock loads and provide stiff bearing arrangements which require a minimum of axial space. They are single direction bearings and can only accommodate axial loads acting in one direction. Particularly compact bearing arrangements can be made, taking up no more space than a conventional thrust washer, if the faces of adjacent machine components can serve as raceways for a needle roller and cage thrust assembly. For applications where adjacent components cannot serve as raceways, the assemblies can also be combined with washers of various designs.

Because of all the possible combinations, all bearing components must be ordered separately.


  Need to do a little research on bearings Gene.