Author Topic: Regarding piston/tophat weight  (Read 2964 times)

Offline MIKE I

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
    • http://
Regarding piston/tophat weight
« on: December 10, 2008, 03:15:27 PM »
Just tossing around an idea in my head.  If the greater part of recoil comes from the piston striking the front of the compression tube, would it stand to reason that a lighter piston and tophat would cause less recoil?  

Also, if they weighed less, what is the effect on the timing of the spring/piston traveling forward?  

Lastly, if you could affect the timing of the spring/piston so that they strike the end of the compression tube after the pellet leaves the barrel could you improve accuracy?

Just some ideas rattling around a newbee's head.
MM B-26 .22 Centerpoint 4x16x40 AO IR
Gamo S1K .177 Centerpoint 4x16x40 AO IR
What next?

Offline bil601

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 03:58:06 PM »
I made a solid steel top hat for my B25 when I was tinkering. My goal was to shoot heavy ammo. Fps went up, recoil went way up, pellets went all over the place. Made one from alum. lost about 25 fps, but it would shoot in the same hole & was very smooth. how about an all alum. piston & spring.

Offline kiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1410
    • http://www.nzairgunners.com
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 05:26:48 PM »
I would say lighter if you want less recoil
I have lightened the traveling mass in one of my
guns by 5 grams and its so smooth.
The pellet dose not start to move untill the pressure
reaches a level that can over power the pellet to bore resistance.
This usaly happens in the last 10/15mm of piston travel.
EG..the piston has almost finished its travel buy the time the
pellet starts to move so the twist / recoil happens before the
pellet has moved.
Kiwi

Spring guide sets...  http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?
http://www.nzairgunners.com

If guns are outlawed ONLY outlaws will have guns

A tin of Gamo pellets is like a box of chocs U never know what yer going to get.....



Offline gunsup0331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 06:01:35 PM »
i love this topic!

Offline Gene_SC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
    • http://www.airguntoys.com
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 01:39:03 AM »
Well Brandon, what is so specific about this topic that you love?
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline Graham

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 02:43:36 AM »
Quote
bil601 - 12/11/2008  4:58 AM

I made a solid steel top hat for my B25 when I was tinkering. My goal was to shoot heavy ammo. Fps went up, recoil went way up, pellets went all over the place. Made one from alum. lost about 25 fps, but it would shoot in the same hole & was very smooth. how about an all alum. piston & spring.


I really can't see an aluminium spring working.

Offline bil601

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 03:40:47 AM »
How about titainium spring, carbon fiber gas ram, or a tube that has a longer ratio to the barrel so pellet is gone before the piston hits. How about a piston that fires into your shoulder instead of into the barrel. How about a spring & piston that fires loading a gas valve then you fire the valve to send the pellet like a co2 or pump up. I think RWS came up with a simple soultion with the floating action with shock absorber.

Offline Graham

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 07:44:02 AM »
Yeah! Titanium is brittle too, so it would snap like a matchstick.

Offline bil601

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 08:47:33 AM »
Titanium is a lot of things but it is not brittle. They have been usng Ti valve springs in race cars for years. The best mountain bikes have Ti suspension springs. They are as good or better than any steel springs & do it at 45% less wieght. The rub is Ti is 4 times the cost & it is very hard to work with. You can also make springs from alum alloy once again cost is the factor. Springs have been made from almost anything you can think of brass, cooper. alum. Ti., wood, bone, fiber glass, carbon fiber, rubber, plastic.  It boils down to what works best for the money. Most guns shoot better than the guy shooting them. I can throw a beer can in the air & hit it 3 times before it hits the ground with my Red Rider. I dont think lock time has anything to do with it.

Offline RCnMo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 576
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 01:04:21 PM »
I can throw a beer can in the air & hit it 3 times before it hits the ground with my Red Rider. I dont think lock time has anything to do with it.

Man, I'd like to see that on youtube.
CFX .177, RWS 34 Panther .177, B26 .177, B30 .177, B40 .177, Crosman Quest .177(gave it to my brother),Crosman G1 .177, B3 .177, B2 .177, QB 78 .177, TF89 .22, Crosman 1377, P17

Offline gunsup0331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
    • http://
Re: Regarding piston/tophat weight
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 06:55:24 PM »
hmmmmmmm how to answer.....I love this topic because it brings forth fresh ideas and experiments/experience to our forum.