Author Topic: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum  (Read 10059 times)

Offline Gene_SC

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Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« on: December 13, 2008, 12:07:57 PM »


One of my clients ask me to do a review based on the Walther Talon. I have just finished doing a turbo tune on a Walther Talon this last week. Now this is my impression and opinion of the Walther Talon based on the design and mechanics of the Walther Talon.



First off the Walther Talon is a very heavy and long air rifle. It takes some special designed fixtures in order to disassemble re assemble the Walther Talon. With that said it took me a couple hours just to make tools before I could work on the Walther Talon. Same procedure to re assemble. After disassembly and all the parts are laid out on the bench, I could not help but notice that the spring block was a mere piece of 2" long plastic with holes and slots in it. The spring guide was also molded into the front of the spring block. There is a step half way around the face of the front of the spring block where two washers sit. The way the surface of spring block is cut the washers sit canted on the face of spring block and not at all flush. Also I might add that one washer was just a everyday galvanized washer you would find at the hardware store. The plastic washer was just a stamped out washer. Both of the were distorted and bent due to the fact that they did not sit flush on the front of the spring block.



The spring looked like more of a weapon with it being over 14" long with very heavy wire. And thatspring had be set all ready.It was very large in diameter as well. The piston was almost 9" long and very heavy. They made it so it incorporated the weight of a top hat but was pressed in the bottom of piston.. Also the piston was bigger around than any piston I have seen so far and that includes the Gamo 1250. The seal was even larger than the Gamo 1250 piston seal which is almost 1 1/6" in diameter. Yes the Walther Talon is a BRUTE, to say the least. Since the spring was so long the overall cocking sweep was very big as well. I would say the cocking pressure was around 45 to 50 lbs. Just a guess.



I did the pre tune test on the chrony and was getting way past the sound barrier. In the mid 1100 fps range with Gamo Hunters. I quickly changed pellets to the Beeman heavies, and was still in the upper 900 fps range.

After I was completed with my turbo tune on the Walther Talon, the numbers were up about 10% and a steady fps range but still this Falcon will kill you if you try to sit down for an afternoon of peace full shooting..:) In my opinion it would kill most scopes that you use on it. It is made or one thing only and that is for pure hunting. If you don't dislocate your fingers and wrist's from your arms first after shooting it. I defiantly will rattle your cage when shot. A tremendous amount of recoil and action noise. It is loud and probably would not hurt to put a barrel weight on it to stop some of the barrel flip.



I might add that the stock has 4 large screws in the sides which are left handed threads. I think they had to use 4 screws there in order help with some of the vibration that you feelwhen holding the four stock when shooting.



I personally would never own one of these Walther Talons, simply because my tastes lie in mid range shooter's and not in Super Magnums. Anyone who owns a Walther Talon knows that they are definitely a Super Magnum Springer.



On a final note: I will not be doing any further tuning of the Walther Talons..:)



THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline dave2288

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 12:20:50 PM »
nice review, gene...lol, i'm gonna guess that you won't be doing any more of these..;)
Dave

g1 extreme(turbo tuned cdt trigger, choker muzzle break and fix hinge), powerline 1000s(lube tuned...soon to get a makeover), benjamin ss .22 tuned and shortened, patriot .25(british)

Offline CharlieDaTuna

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RE: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 03:20:50 PM »
Heee...Heee.   I told ya so..I told ya so .... but ya jist woodnt lissen :p  :p  :p
Bob  aka:  CharlieDaTuna
Co-founder of the GTA


HOME OF THE GRT-III TRIGGER
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Benji-342 .177 /Brazilian Winchester 800 .22 /Gamo Cadet .177 /Gamo Shadowmatic .177 /Gamo 440 .22 /Gamo Royal .22 /Gamo Whisper .177 /Gamo SK-1 .20 /B-20 .177 /TF-99 .177 /QB-78 .177 /QB-78t .22 /QB-78-(CD) .22 /QB-78-(CJ) .22/QB-78D .22 /Crosman 2240 .22 /Cros 150 .177 /Crosman Back Packer .22 ?Crosman AS 2250 .22 /Daisy Mod 93 .177 /Marksman 2004 .177 /GS 35 .177 /FWB-124 .177 /Custom Marauder .22 /Custom Disco .177


Offline Bhawanna

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Get 'em charlie!!!
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 03:42:25 PM »
NA,NA,NA...NA.........Charlie told you so!!!....sorry gene...but it got funny when charlie chimed in.... you know, if you could take one of those bad boys and put a wooden stock on it with a webley (english version) tomahawk trigger, chop the barrel with a 3 inch tapered choke...... it would be one hell of a gun.
The hardest part of getting old is trying to look good naked!

Offline dave2288

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 04:57:34 AM »
well, as far as the trigger, i'm sure you could pay some pro tuner out there LOTS of money to redesign the trigger...and everything else is doable...but, worth it in a gun like that?...eh...i'll stick with my english patriot:)
Dave

g1 extreme(turbo tuned cdt trigger, choker muzzle break and fix hinge), powerline 1000s(lube tuned...soon to get a makeover), benjamin ss .22 tuned and shortened, patriot .25(british)

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 07:43:13 AM »
Dave the trigger is very hard to determine how much you can do with it. I was able to mod my trigger, on the Webley/Scott Longbow which is the same trigger, and got it working ok but triggers can be very dangerous. I am not about to over do a trigger tune on a clients air rifle. I always keep safety in mind and never go past what I consider the limits of material removal. I am sure someone knows how to tame these triggers but I have yet to figuere out what would be a go, no go limitation.
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline Iflyrc

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RE: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 08:39:11 AM »
Gene
     Thanks for the review we needed an honest review from a respected tuner on these Hatsan magnums. I do apologize for putting you through all the hard work ( bob knew I guess ) but now everyone knows what their getting into. I for one didn't know about Hatsan and bought based on the Walther name when the Talon was first available. I did do a minor review on my first impressions when I first got it and yes I won't be plinking or FT with this and a bi pod wouldn't hurt either for hunting. I've had a BSA 6-24x40 AO huntsman on it since day one that has held up very well. Again thanks Gene.
So many Pellets so few critters.


Crossman 1077, TF 99 .177, CFX .22 CDT tuned, Walther Talon Mag .177 Gene turbo tuned, Black shadow .22 GRT III, Disco .22

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2008, 02:01:09 AM »
Roy, you and many others will have there worked cut out for them who attempt a tune on a Walther Talon..:) The trigger assyembly is basically simple but crude in design. I would suggest that you find out if Umarex has new triggers before you start moding your triggers..:) I was able to lighten up the trigger on my Webley/Scott Longbow but it took hours to do. Of course most of the Turkish made guns I have seen have these triggers. If the Turkish military uses guns with these triggers then I do not think anyone has to worry. By the time they could squeeze off a shot they would have been spotted and shot...:)
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline shadow

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 11:05:27 AM »
Great review and I remember that we were chewing that fat over this beast that you were tuning :0 , makes the 1250 sound like a walk in the park hehehe.. At least we all got the skinny on them now and one fella got a tuned one from you. :) Thanks for sharing your result's with us buddy. :) Ed
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline DanoInTx

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Ouch, ouch,......
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2008, 03:27:14 PM »
.....I feel my tender shoulder acting up just by reading about this thing.  Great review Mr.Gene, I had wondered about these big boys and now I know the straight deal.  With my shoulder anything much over a Gamo S1K and I'm cooked after 5 rounds......I'll stick to PCP's!
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2008, 02:18:09 PM »
LOL Dano. Let the younger guys test there arms and shoulders out..:) We have already been down that road.. Eh Dano..:) One reason why I would not tune another Walther or Gamo 1250is just the fact that I have to pre and post test it on the chrony and that means 20 plus shots for the average fps readings... OUCH!
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline Iflyrc

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RE: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2008, 06:36:05 AM »
First I'd like to thank Gene for a great job on the tune, it no longer sounds like a rusty garage door opening when I cock it. The talon won't scare off the prey when I load anymore :D . Yes I agree this is a brute, I'm 5'6" 145 lbs 58 yrs old with 2 torn rotator cuffs and 20 rounds is about all my shoulders can handle cocking this beast, I had to try it out this morning and sight in the scope. I was using gammo hunters at 20 yards with a slice of red oak firewood for a backstop and the pellets where going in nearly 1 1/2" :o .   So this will be my armadillo killer I know it will penetrate and I won't be using this on a regular basis unless I want to buy stock in a drug company.

   Again thanks Gene for another fine tune.
So many Pellets so few critters.


Crossman 1077, TF 99 .177, CFX .22 CDT tuned, Walther Talon Mag .177 Gene turbo tuned, Black shadow .22 GRT III, Disco .22

Offline mackeralboy

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 02:11:15 PM »
I read Gene’s review of the Walther Falcon and I’d have to say I agree with everything he said. I particularly found it interesting what he said about the guts of the gun. It confirms my suspicions of the quality control of this gun.
The following is a series of reviews that I did on another forum of my Falcon Hunter and the issues I have had with it.

FYI I bought a Walther Falcon Hunter in .22cal a couple months ago. My initial impressions were mixed. It is a beast. It came covered in a significant amount of what appeared to be cutting oil that took a while to clean off. I then reamed out the barrel and cleaned it thoroughly. I noticed right away that the catch that holds the barrel in place is REAL STIFF. I thought I was going to bend my barrel before I got it to release. (much harder than either my Theoben Eliminator or my Gamo 1250) Once I got it open I noticed that the grove and breach seal were not concentric with the axis of the breach. The breach seal is a rubber O-ring but is not round in cross section. It's oblong to fit the deep breach seal groove. I've never seen anything else like it. The scope it came with seemed good enough. Once I got the scope mounted on the rifle I started to sight it in. After about 12 rounds I got it close to the bull’s-eye at 15yards and then it stated to put shots all over the place. I did my usual diagnostic in this type of situation first checking my scope mounts, and when I next checked the stock I noticed that it had cracked at each of the four mounting screws on the forstock. (Let me tell you another weird tidbit about this gun..... the forstock screws are reversed thread.) Yikes! 25 rounds and the stock had started to crack already. Note the stock is some sort of plastic. I called the online store that I had bought it from and they said that the gun was under warranty from Umarex and that I would have to send it there to have it repaired or replaced. I didn't relish the thought of have to ship my cracked stock to BFE, and wait around for weeks, only to have them send me the same cheesy stock. So I have written it off to "you get what you pay for" and have now turned it into a project gun. I'm presently making a stock for it and will be beefing it up around where the screws attach to the forstock. When it's done and everything is back together again I will update this topic with the results.

FYI, I fired the rifle with the new stock on it. First impressions.....It made a big difference, 1/2 - 3/4" groups at 15 yards. I know this is not earth shattering accuracy. I'm sure that once I stop flinching from the recoil that the groups will drop to about half of that. Because of the heavy recoil of this gun I made the stock extra beefy. I figured the extra weight would help with the recoil and keeping some extra wood would prevent the stock from splitting. It is a beast of a gun, 50" long overall and I'm guessing 10+ pounds. It feels as heavy as my Remington 700 PSS.  
 
The gun definitely has power. I chrono'd it at 860 to 880 fps with a 14.3 grain JSB Jumbo Exacts. That puts it at about 24 FPE. It is a beast though. It could use a good tune to smooth it out and take away some of the recoil. Initially at 25yards I was grouping the size of a quarter, but at 50yds it opened up to 2." It definitely is hold sensitive and I was able to get the groups back down to nickel size at 25yards using the "Artillery" hold.
It's got power alright. The new stock brought the groupings back to within reason but still nowhere close to what I'd like to see. I think the problem at this point is I need to get a better scope that can handle the recoil. When I get some spare cash I'm going to try to get a Bushnell Legend 5-15 x 40 scope and mount it. I have one on my Theoben Eliminator and I've never had any problems with the recoil/ shock. The scope that it comes with isn't up to the task in my opinion but might work out on another airgun down the road. I also tried one of the newer generation Leapers scopes but still no love. Right now the gun is accurate enough to take out a raccoon or similar sized varmint but it isn't tight enough on the groupings for say a rabbit or crow at 50 yards. The trigger is plastic and a bit lose so I'm betting that is contributing to its lack of accuracy. If your thinking about buying one save your money. It’s been said before many times here and on other sites that you can have all the power in the world but it does you no good if you can't hit what you’re aiming at. I really can't believe that they are still talking these things up on the websites and magazine ads considering how cheap and flimsy the plastic stocks are that come with them.

You know the sad part is for investment of about $50.00 more per gun, Umarex could have a put on a decent wooden/or composite stock, a little better machining/craftsman ship, and a metal trigger. They could have raised the retailer’s price by about $100.00 and it would have been an even better bargain at that price.

Air Arms Prosport .22 cal
Beeman SS1000H .22 cal
Beeman P1 .20 cal
Benjamin Discovery .22 cal
BSA Lightning Tactical XL .22 cal
Crosman 1377 converted to .22 cal by Tim McMurry
Crosman Quest 800X .22 cal
Crosman Nitro .22 cal
Gamo 1250 .177 cal
Gamo 1250 .22 cal
Gamo Whisper .177 cal
Theoben Eliminator .25 cal
Walther Falcon Hunter .22 cal

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 02:24:38 PM »
Mike, I am glad someone else thinks it is a beast besides myself and the own who I tuned it for. I would think most good tuners wood steer away from a springer like that. It is all mains spring and very large piston that gives it all the recoil and roughness. The trigger is made in Turkey along with the gun...:)
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline mackeralboy

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Re: Walther Talon - The Brute Super Magnum
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 03:42:04 PM »
Hey Gene, I'd like to post some pic's of the stock I made for my Falcon Hunter but I can't figure out how to attach them. How do I go about doing it?
Air Arms Prosport .22 cal
Beeman SS1000H .22 cal
Beeman P1 .20 cal
Benjamin Discovery .22 cal
BSA Lightning Tactical XL .22 cal
Crosman 1377 converted to .22 cal by Tim McMurry
Crosman Quest 800X .22 cal
Crosman Nitro .22 cal
Gamo 1250 .177 cal
Gamo 1250 .22 cal
Gamo Whisper .177 cal
Theoben Eliminator .25 cal
Walther Falcon Hunter .22 cal