Author Topic: Novice Tune-Up on a B3-1  (Read 32087 times)

Offline hyounker

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RE: Should I Weld?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2009, 12:49:03 PM »
Seemed to me that it would be better if there was a flat surface for the spring to ride on, instead of that rounded, dome like piece.  I'm thinking of machining a spring guide like this to eliminate the plastic cap:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12857&mid=103846#M103846

Hey, BTW, noticed you had a Shadow Express .22 (you've got quite a collection!).  I saw one at Wally's World today for $150, on clearance.  Worth it?  Have you shot the shotshells?

Thanks,

Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline davee1

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RE: Should I Weld?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 01:12:57 PM »


Oh wow I didn't noticethat the metal one had a rounded spring seat. Yes, flat is better. You can put a washer there and it will work well, and another or two at the piston end.



About the Shadow Express...Well...worth it is up to you. It has a smooth bore, it is not rifled. It is not as accurate as my others with rifled bores. The shotshells are fun, but only at a distance of about 10 feet...maybe 15 max. The shot is small...its #9, so it looses its energy quickly, and the pattern spreads out. Fun for blowin away pests at that close range and thats it. You can reuse the shells and load your own...but still, the range on the shells is a problem. The shotsize needs to be bigger, and more power behind the shot, and then I think we could have some fun. It has a chamber adapter that comes with it that you can shoot regular .22 pellets with it. With pellets, the power is good, but because of the smooth bore, accuracy suffers. Now, I dont want to give you the impression that this is a POS, but for 150 bucks I would kick in an extra $50, buy a Whisper .22 from Midsouth and never look back. Link below:



http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0016461100495554



Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline hyounker

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RE: Should I Weld?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2009, 02:03:01 PM »
Thanks for the tips on the washers.  I'll start trying to find some.

I think I'll put this thing back together as close to stock as possible (need to replace breech seal, at a minimum) and see how it feels and shoots, compared to pre-tune.  Then go back in and make some of the changes that you and others recommend in this and other threads.  I like to tinker!  I'm gonna go tomorrow to try to find some of the fuel hose that you (davee1) recommended.

Also, I read here somewhere about the points of the trigger that should be polished, but I can't find it now.  It was a diagram with arrows pointing to the areas that should be polished.  Can anyone help me find it again?

Smooth bore doesn't sound like me.  I'm an accuracy kind of guy.  I didn't know that it was a smooth bore, but it makes sense now (shotshells).

Thanks to all,
Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline hyounker

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Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline davee1

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RE: Should I Weld?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2009, 02:35:26 PM »
Excellent...I can't think of a better airgun to tinker with. Most of what you learn can be applied to other airguns as well.
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline CharTech

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RE: Should I Weld?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 04:58:57 PM »
Quote
hyounker - 1/9/2009  7:03 PM

Thanks for the tips on the washers.  I'll start trying to find some.



You can find a washer with the right outside diameter for the spring guide but you'll have the increase the inner diameter.  I drill it out to make a bigger whole then use a my dremel to finish it and clean it up.

Offline davee1

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while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 06:41:21 PM »


I might as well say that the washers used should be hardened washers like grade 8. Sometimes you can find stock washers that will work, and sometimes you have to modify them to fit. If you can't find hardened washers, then at least use stainless steel. The idea about this is that the washers take a beating from the spring, so you want them to be able to stand up to that beating. But...its not like if you use regular washers that the washers are gonna break on ya after a few shots...they'll stand upwhile you find some hardened ones. Just don't leave em in there to wear out and let pieces of em get all over the place and ruin everything. Moly is important too. Now before I start into my lecture about making a "bearing", let me just say this: everyone has their own way of doing stuff. This is my way. Embrace it, modify it, totally ignore it...do whatever you want...do whatmakes sense to you.Some folks use 1 washer and some use 2 washers to make abearing...here's how I do it: I put 2 washers at each end of the spring, so there is 2 on the spring guide rod and 2 inside of the piston, and I apply moly to thewashers and ends of the spring. I use some fine sandpaper, like 1200 grit to get a finish on the washers so that the moly has microscopic grooves to get into and do its job...making your bearing nice and slick. You can even have the surface of the washerthat meets the spring ends be finely polished to a mirror shine if you want, but the "sandwich" between the 2 washers should have some fine grooves for the moly to get into. These washers act like a thrust bearing, without any needle bearings or anything like that. The spring is free to twist,turn, and torqueall it wants...but very little of the torqueis actually transmitted into the rest of the airgun. I don't feel any twisting or torque in my B3 that I've tuned and experimentedwith. Sometimes 4 washers total is too much because that spaces up the spring to where it won't cock...if thats the case then use 3, or 2 washers. I've even used more washers than that, and a tophat, just so I can space up the spring to its maximum, which can give you a little more power...YMMV(your mileage may vary).But then we canget into too much weight/too many washers inside of the piston, which makes the piston really heavy, and can add to the recoil, and in really bad cases...cause the piston to "slam".So there's a balance, a tradeoff, but my 4 washershaven't hurt my B3 yet...and literally thousands of pellets have gone out of it. Now, granted, there is a whole lot more to tuning an airgun...but thats what I do with thewashers.

Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline hyounker

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RE: while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2009, 12:15:44 AM »
Great info, guys.  Thanks a bunch.

I own a very small company and I lease warehouse space from a machine shop.  The guys over there have been great in the past with all my little "needs".  They carry a plethora of bronze washers that they call Oilite bearings.  When I showed them the spring, piston, spring guide from the B3, they recommended using one Oilite Bearing on each end of the spring, stating that it was a near perfect application of the bearing.  Anyone else used these?  They also said that polishing was probably unnecessary, as the spring would polish the bronze very quickly.

Any comments on these washers, or should I stick with hardened washers?

THanks again.

Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline howie1a

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I've used the oil lite bearings and they work fine they are a type of bronze  that is impregnated with a lube. They are the same type of bearings you used to see in elect. drills years ago befoer they used needle bearings , thy are still found in cheaper drills .I am only refering to the drills since most of us might have seen this type of bearing their, also they work easy you can drill them easy to fit on a spring guide but you might want to put  them between 2 pieces of wood and then drill less chance of breaking them. howie ps I also like 2 thin SS washers with lube between.
Howie1a
CURRENT HERD ,, Baikal pistol M53 in 177 ,,crossman pistol 357 -177cal. ,,Bam 30 -22 cal,,  RWS 320 cal 177 custom walnut  stock,,QB2078 custom stock walnut cal177,,   QB2078 custom walnut stock  22 cal,,B7 custom stock cal 177 ,, B12 custom stock cal 177,,B16 from shadow 177 cal,,<< ALL THE REST OF MY  RIFLES FROM \"\"MIKE M. Flying Dragon Air Rifles \"\" Super nice.


Offline howie1a

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error
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2009, 01:11:57 AM »
error
Howie1a
CURRENT HERD ,, Baikal pistol M53 in 177 ,,crossman pistol 357 -177cal. ,,Bam 30 -22 cal,,  RWS 320 cal 177 custom walnut  stock,,QB2078 custom stock walnut cal177,,   QB2078 custom walnut stock  22 cal,,B7 custom stock cal 177 ,, B12 custom stock cal 177,,B16 from shadow 177 cal,,<< ALL THE REST OF MY  RIFLES FROM \"\"MIKE M. Flying Dragon Air Rifles \"\" Super nice.


Offline hyounker

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RE: while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2009, 01:21:05 AM »
Hey, could I use some sort of delrin-like material for a spacer (eliminating the short rounded piece that contacted the spring originally) and then put washers on top of that?

Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline hyounker

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Howie,

Thanks for the input.  Seeing as the machine shop boys will hand me a few for nothing, I think I'll try it later.  I have found, thoughout the years, that the free part is almost always is superior to any other!!!  

See my other post below.
Henry Younker
Oxford, GA

-----

B3-1 .177 (a work in progress)
Gamo 850 .177
Gamo Whisper .177 w/Barska Scope
MM B-26 .22

Offline davee1

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RE: while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 06:23:29 AM »
yes, you can use delrin spacers in a B3. But I wouldnt use delrin like in a WFH because of the tremendous forces involved. I have some delrin spacers in my B3. But I prefer to have the springs ends contacting metal washers.
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline davee1

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RE: while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 06:43:11 AM »
About those bronze washers...I have an open mind, always looking for a better way to do things. I'm wondering if the bronze washers can stand up to the compression forces generated by the spring. Like for example, Howie mentioned that he's seen the bronzies in drills. In a drill, there's rotational force...much more so than compression force. Its like the perfect solution for things to spin against, but Howie also mentions how brittle they are. Something that brittle might shatter under the forces from the spring. But hey...you could try em. The B3 wont explode on ya from those bronzies. You'd just have ta be keen on listening for abnormalities, feeling for abnormalities, and open it up for periodic inspection. Thats one of the beauties of having/tinkering with a B3...whats the worst that could happen? If the thing breaks on ya, and ya can't fix it...your only out 25 bucks!!! And a new one is only a few keystrokes away
Walther Falcon.25, Shadow.177, Shadow Express.22, Whisper.22, CFX.177/.22, B3AK.22, B3.177(x2), B4.22, B21.22, B26.22, Diana350M.177/.22, Beeman1073.177/.22, Hammerli Storm.22, Hammerli X2.177/.22, BeemanP1.177, P3.177, P17.177(x2), Diana5G(P5).177, Diana LP8, Browning800, BenjiHB22, Crosman1377, Marauder.22

Offline 70GTvert

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RE: while we are talking about washers...
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 08:21:12 AM »
Why not? His older one has the metal spring guide, but current ones use a plastic, far less strong compared to bronze, and it holds up to the spring.
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