Author Topic: S200 trigger diagram?  (Read 12324 times)

Offline DanoInTx

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S200 trigger diagram?
« on: January 22, 2009, 03:51:16 PM »
Anybody have an Air Arms S200 trigger diagram, would love to see it.  So far I've figured out most of the adjustments, but I think a picture would be worth 1000 words.  The trigger on the S200 has no sight holes or anything to go off of except for feel when you adjust it, and there is no seeing inside either, it's all crammed into the reciever/breach/valve/hammer/everything module.  If you have any tips or ideas I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 11:14:21 AM »
This how I "think" it works based on some tinkering, but I STILL need a diagram if anyone has a link or whatever...but here goes:



Small screw in front is 1st stage takeup.  Small adjustments go a LONG way, I got rid of 99% of my first stage with just 1 turn.
 
Second medium screw is 1st stage adjustment, you can actually adjust this in till the gun wont cock, or till you have no second stage.
 
Third medium screw is 2nd stage adjustment/travel, here's where you can get rid of some creep(may have to move the trigger shoe to get to this screw).
 
The last tiny screw doesn't appear to be a screw at all, my eyes are getting bad and I tried adjusting it as a trigger stop for about 5 minutes before I realised it wasn't turning...think it's just a hole...hehe!  Maybe it's a screw, you tell me.
 
The allen screw that is in the trigger gaurd at the far after end is the trigger weight, adjust it too far out and it falls out in your hand, adjust too far in and I guess it will dig to China and disappear in the action along with the spring underneath it...mine is about 3 turns in.
 
The trigger shoe gives more leverage the further aft it sits on the little dovetail, kinda bad when you get the trigger all setup, then adjust the trigger shoe to fit you and and everything feels different than how you set it up:(


That is a copy of what I sent to DaveD last night, he says his S200 trigger is "working nice" and he isn't going to mess with it, thanks for the help pal!  If anyone finds a real diagram, and not the IPB from Chambers, that just shows parts, I would be REALLY excited to see it...I may get so excited that I wear my new t-shirt out to dinner at Taco Bell tonight and make it a special event:)

Thanks,
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline ribbonstone

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 02:43:01 PM »
Think you have it right; I'm like the friend you mentioned in that I liked my trigger just fine wehn i got the gun (2nd hand) and haven't felt the need to fiddle with it.

this might help...no diagram but his take on the screws matches yours:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~ispellan/Cz200.html  

That's on an older version (the Mk.I), but the trigger is the same critter as later versions.
Robert

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 09:32:07 PM »
Yuppems, read that before I ever got the gun, actually read that a year or two ago when I first added the S200 to my "short list".  It's good info and after re-reading it again it does seem to confirm what I discovered about the trigger on my own.  There's another writeup on Pilkguns website that describes how to adjust the trigger to a single stage crisp pull.  I tried that one and wasn't real happy with the way it felt, and really prefer a two stage trigger if possible.  I think maybe after owning a Tau-200 which is the ancestor of the S200 I was really expecting a trigger that was match grade, this one feels a bit rough and unpredictable.  I'd like to tear into it and give it a good cleaning up and polishing, but without a diagram I don't want to take it apart to discover that I can't remember how I got to having a handful of springs and screws...haha!!  I think I'll just continue shooting it and hope it works in a little, and most likely also add an aftermarket trigger blade from Rowan to help with the feel a little...plastic doesn't feel right.  Nice little guns for sure, I have wanted one for a long time and am happy I finally broke down and bought one.  Thanks for the re-info:)

Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline ribbonstone

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 01:57:51 AM »
Looked over the trigger of mine this AM.  The screws adjust as you figured out.

Picked up mine just a few weeks ago, used rifle so perhaps your trigger just needs a break in period. Don't think it's in the cards to ever be  the "think-shoot" of a true match trigger but it's not bad.
------
Tuned this .22 down a bit.  Recieved it shooting well, but was surprised to see it cranking out over 16 foot pounds (14.3 @ 725fps).  A few sessions with the mainspring tension and the transfer port restricter screw got it down to where I wanted it (635fps).  For such a tiny air cylinder, getting 45 shots in the "sweet spot" pleases me.  Accuracy is outstanding.

Logic is this.  Hunt squirrels in thick woods where I never get shots longer than 40-50 yards (and those are rare).  Never had a problem with the power of a Benjamin or Sheridan at those ranges, but more accuracy would be a big plus. So i set this one to the same speed as a fully pumped (stock) Sheridan or Benjamin, I just pump the S200 100 times for 45 shots (with a Sheridan/Benjamin would pump it 8 times for each shot, or 360 times for 45 shots).

Robert

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 03:35:42 AM »
Maybe I should just spend an afternoon or two shooting it, mine only has about 150 shots total through it so far since new...maybe even less.  Some shooting should break the trigger in a little better, I think it's the roughness that buggs me the most.  Here's mine, I've added the 10 shot magazine system since this picture and got a custom stock from Steve Corcoran on order too...hope to get that in the next few months...I can't wait!



Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline ribbonstone

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Playing today
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 07:30:29 AM »
.22 AA S200        Click pictures to enlarge

Only had 20yards to play in today, but had fun anyway.   Vel. figures are readings taken at 6 yards, so could add 15 fps to get close to muzzle vel.



Fiddled with this one to get it’s power down a bit .  Normally set for 12 foot pounds, this used rifle was shooting a bit more than 16 foot pounds when I got it. Shot well,  but didn’t get a lot of shots at that level.  Backed it down to the 12-13 foot pound range for a much longer ‘sweet spot”.


With this rifle, drop didn’t really become noticeable at this range until shot #50.  Even to shot #65, the difference in point of impact wasn’t all that drastic, but when it decided to really let down, the POI dropped quickly, which is a sign of a small air volume at work (like the Discovery).

Will normally fill this rifle to 2800 PSI  and shoot 50 shots before refilling.  If I were to get serious about getting the most consistent shots possible, would fill to 2600 and refill after 40 shots.  The average of the first 11 5 shot 20yard groups was .15” (which impressed the hell out of me).

Robert

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 09:50:51 AM »
Nice groups!!!  I did these a month or so ago at 15 yards, they are 10 shot groups with various pellets.  I think I could tighten it even more if I could get the trigger to my liking:


Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline spysir

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PDF diagram
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 01:20:31 PM »
maybe this is at least fun to look at.
http://www.czub.cz/navody/cz200_en.pdf
thats a a .5mb PDF file.

  John

Offline DanoInTx

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Re: S200 trigger diagram?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 05:17:12 AM »
Thanks John, I got that book in paperback...haha!!!
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline DanoInTx

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Trigger bliss!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2009, 11:58:28 AM »
This was an email I originally sent to DaveD, but then I realized that maybe other people would want to read it too, especially since Dave hasn't even written me back....so here it goes:



Trigger bliss!!!!  No diagram, but for the third time since I've owned it I took it all down again and started fooling with the trigger....this time I went a little further in dissassembly.  Here is the updated adjustment sequence:
 
Small screw in front is 1st stage takeup. Small adjustments go a LONG way, I got rid of 99% of my first stage with just 1 turn.

Second medium screw is 1st stage adjustment, you can actually adjust this in till the gun wont cock, or till you have no second stage till after the gun fires.

Third medium screw is 2nd stage adjustment/travel, here's where you can get rid of some creep(may have to move the trigger shoe to get to this screw).

The last tiny screw IS in fact a trigger stop, you have to tighten this one way down before it'll do anything though

The allen screw that is in the trigger gaurd at the far after end is the trigger weight, adjust it too far out and it falls out in your hand, adjust too far in and the spring may wind around it.  This is an allen head set screw with a little plunger tip on it that the spring rides on.  This spring is called out as "second stage trigger pull" or something in the manual, it actually effects BOTH first and second stage weight.
 
The trigger shoe gives more leverage the further aft it sits on the little dovetail, kinda bad when you get the trigger all setup, then adjust the trigger shoe to fit you and and everything feels different than how you set it up:(
 
 
Here is how I think it should be adjusted.  
 
Remove the air cylinder.  Remove the stock.
 
Remove trigger guard, spring will come out with it under the far afterwards screw, put in safe place.  You'll notice that the trigger still has spring to it, that's because there is a second spring...probably why some say it isn't a true 2-stage trigger, but both 1st and 2nd stage screws DO move the sear, that means it's a true 2-stage trigger, has nothing to do with if it has an extra spring for "feel"....could probably nip this spring down a coil or two and get a REALLY light trigger, but I'm not messing with it.  The other spring, the one they call "2nd stage weight" is actually the spring acting on the sear, the other acts only on the blade/dovetail.  Remove the trigger shoe, it's in the way from here on out.
 
The edge of the trigger dovetail has a little groove in it that tends to hang up on the side of the reciever, to remedy that you have to adjust the small front screw in far enough that the groove isn't visable while looking from the side of the reciever....this is why my trigger felt gritty and un-predictable, I was pulling the trigger till I felt that groove catch the edge of the reciever and thinking it was my second stage, then pulling through that and popping through the true second stage....yes, the S200 has a true 2-stage trigger despite any other references.   So backoff the other screws a bit and adjust the forward tiny screw till the dovetail rocks aft and edge is out of sight, problem solved.
 
Now adjust the rearmost tiny screw, the one I couldn't decide if it was a screw or a hole, it IS in fact a trigger stop.  You'll have to turn this one in till it almost dissapears before it actually stops anything.  I adjusted mine till it was about 3 turns from completely going through the dovetail, should really be a longer setscrew, may replace it at a later date.  If you didn't do it while adjusting the front tiny screw, adjust the two middle medium screws out a few turns now.
 
If you look just aft of the dovetail you'll see where the "2nd stage weight" screw rides on the sear, push the sear down at that spot ( I used a small allen wrench)and cock the gun (did you remove the air cylinder? If not do it now and be sure you are unloaded).  
While pushing this down, with the gun cocked, push the dovetail down like you would be pulling the trigger till it hits the stop.  If you backed out the two medium middle screws the gun should not fire.  While still pushing on the sear start tightening down the front medium screw till the gun fires, then back off one turn.  Repeat cocking procedure, and push dovetail again, gun should not fire, if it does the forward medium screw is still too tight, back off in 1/2 turn increments till it consistantly does NOT fire.  Now, cock the gun again, and while pressing on the sear, tighten the rear medium screw till the gun fires, then tighten 1/2 turn more.  Reinstall trigger shoe, but leave loose.  Reinstall spring and trigger gaurd.  Remove aft spring "plunger" screw till it comes out, then reinstall and tighten 3 full turns, make sure the spring lines up with the tip of the screw during re-installation.  Reinstall stock.
 
Shoulder rifle, adjust trigger shoe till it fits you right, but remember, the further aft the lighter the pull...mine is fairly far aft, but still comfy.
 
With air tube still un-installed, cock rifle and slowly pull the trigger, you should have a really light 2-stage trigger.  It may be hard to feel the 2nd stage at first, but you should feel it pretty well after a try or two.  If you really can't feel the 2nd stage then you will need to tighten the rear plunger screw a 1/2 turn at a time till the weight and feel is right for you.  If you pull the trigger and the gun doesn't fire, loosen the trigger shoe and slide forward, and tighten the rear medium screw till the gun fires with the trigger pulled then 1/2 turn more.  Tighten the rearmost screw in the trigger gaurd till the feel and weight are right for you, I left mine in about 4 turns, but I shoot from a bench, if you are going to hunt or carry this gun in the field you will want a heavier trigger.
 
With the trigger setup this way you should have a light, short first stage, a short/sharp/crisp second stage, and very little trigger blade movement after the gun fires.
 
Amen!
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

\"repeat this mantra:
Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline daved

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RE: Trigger bliss!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2009, 02:52:20 PM »
Okay, okay, I'm sorry already ;-)!  Actually, it was so long, I fell asleep half way through, and when I nodded off, my nose hit the delete key.  Yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  And you call me long winded :-).

Seriously, nice write up, it's getting printed out and put in the S200 file.  Still don't need it, I'm really happy with my trigger as it is, but once the honey moon is over I'll probably want it setup more like the Cyclone, just so both rifles feel similar.  Or not, I may leave this one as a very light single stage just for target use.  Time will tell, for now, it's just a lot of fun to shoot.  Haven't shot the Cyclone since I got the 200, which is kind of amazing.  Maybe I need to fix that right now.  Later.

Dave