Author Topic: Shooting offhand #1  (Read 14609 times)

Offline geiger

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RE: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 11:04:24 AM »
you know what's funny...it's that to a certain degree the technique for rifles resembles archery shooting (which i train), mostly the position of the body and trigger arm. i guess it's probably the universal posture for keeping good balance.

Offline riflejunkie

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RE: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 11:13:27 AM »
we're all dealing with the human body so there is bound to be a great deal of overlap.
Daisy 853 with apertures; FWB 300S with apertures; Mike Melick tuned B-26 and B-40.
Dog - George, RIP

Offline ac12basis

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RE: Arrrrggghhhh me back!!
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2009, 06:15:35 AM »
I make a fist and position it like I am punching upward with the back of my hand toward the target, then I rest the rifle on the first 2 knuckles.  This raises the rifle higher than if it were resting on the palm of my hand.  Because it is resting on the knuckels, a padded glove is important to protect your knuckels.  Mine hurt for several weeks, until I got a padded glove.  Now this is just how I shoot, and there are other ways.  

By raising the rifle, I can keep my head more upright, rather than bent forward.  

I also cant the rifle over to the left.
This puts the rear sight to the left of the center-line of the stock.
This allows me to keep my head upright rather than bent over to the right to lean over the stock.

With the head upright, both front/back and left/right, it is easier to keep my balance, and I don't krink my neck.

Oh, in the rules, there is a limit as to how far DOWN you can lower the rear butt plate, to raise the rifle so you don't have to bend you head over.  So if you have a long neck, you have no choice but to either bend your neck to lower your head or position the bottom of the butt plate on your shoulder.  Putting the butt plate high is a less stable position, because you have less butt plate to pull into your shoulder to get a tight position.

I shoot with a sweat shirt, and if cold with a light down vest inside the sweatshirt.

Pistol shooting is easier only because by the rules you CANNOT use any body supports like the shooting outfit that rifle shooters use, so it is a lot cheaper for the shooter.

Gary

Offline ac12basis

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support arm n other stuff
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2009, 06:31:50 AM »
Andy
Think of a line going STRAIGHT DOWN.
That is how you want the weight of the rifle to go, any deviation to the side requires additional support.  This is why the front/rear view (reference the direction of the target as front) of a rifle shooter shows them bending over backwards, to put the rifle over the center of gravity of their body so the weight goes DOWN.

For the support arm.
If you are lucky to have long upper arms, so you can rest your elbow on your hip, good.
If not, like me, what you do is let your left arm go limp and let it rest against your rib cage.  In this way, the rifle pulls the arm down in the shoulder socket, there is NO muscle support use to hold the rifle up.  It will also help to use a sweatshirt with a lot of friction so the arm does not easily side against the ribs.

Similarly for the rest of the body, let the body go LIMP.
My former coach called is the melting snowman position.
In this way, you remove the muscles from holding the rifle and you up...and you have maximum BONE support.

As for elevation.
Look at the side views of the shooters (the front and back of their body), and notice the angle of their back, hip and legs.  This is how the rifle is adjusted in elevation.

WARNING
In these stances and with the 11 pound weight of a match rifle, you MUST be careful to protect your lower back.
Match shooters have the benefit of a shooting jacket, you need to use something similar.  I use a back belt that I got from my local home improvement store.  The belt is NOT competition legal, but is fine for casual home use.

Offline riflejunkie

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RE: support arm n other stuff
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2009, 10:05:27 AM »
Very good, Gary!!!!!!  
A Denim jacket that fits a little tight makes a very good shooting jacket.
Daisy 853 with apertures; FWB 300S with apertures; Mike Melick tuned B-26 and B-40.
Dog - George, RIP

Offline gamo2hammerli

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Re: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2009, 03:56:46 AM »
Wow....that was a really good read Charlotte.  I`ve got to practice that.  Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.

Btw....do you know why in the army....they teach those guys/gals to bring up their elbow (Trigger hand/arm) almost at a right angle while shooting rifles?  Or is that only in Hollywood films?
Gamo: Expotec .177 + Big Cat .177 + Viper .177 + Whisper .177, Hammerli Titan .177, Diana model 24 .177, RWS-Diana P5 Magnum pistol .177, Crosman: G1 Extreme .177 + Storm XT .177 + Sierra Pro .177 + 1377 pistol .177, Air Arms S410SL .22, BSA Scorpion T10 .22, FX Cyclone .177, Remington Air Master 77 .177 + BB\'s,

Offline ac12basis

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right arm
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 09:02:15 AM »
This has to do with the pistol grip on the rifle.

A VERTICAL pistol grip, as on target rifles and M16/AR15, allows the shooter to lower his right arm and still maintain a good grip on the pistol grip.

A HORIZONTAL pistol grip, as on most sportsters, does not allow the shooter to lower his right arm and still maintain a good grip on the pistol grip.  This is most apparent on a really flat pistol grip, as on a lever action rifle, where the pistol grip goes straight into the rear stock w/o any downward form.

Offline riflejunkie

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Re: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2009, 09:11:28 AM »
Things have changed.  There is a different snap shot position used now and you can see it in 3 gun competition.  Jerry Miculek a S&W phenom is the worlds fastest man with a revolver with 12 shots in under 3 seconds and that included a reload, is also a competitor in 3 gun. T There are times whe he intentionally cants his rifle.  Some competitors in those events use a very extended lead hand reaching out toward the muzzle.  
The military teaches the precision type of offhand I was describing.  Lucky for me the US Army Marksmanship Unit is in Columbus, GA about 120 miles from here.  They usually send someone up to our club to compete in our matches and, btw, the AMU also shoots pcp.  Something that isn't well known about the AMU is that it is the NFL of shooting sports.  When some kid is on a collegiate rifle or pistol team and is competing at a very high level they are scouted by the AMU.  The AMU was started by Dwight Eisenhower to recruit the best marksmen and gunsmiths and then these elite members train the trainers and also continue to compete on all levels up to and including the Olympics.  One of the AMU members took home a gold in Beijing.  
Thanks and I'm glad you got something out of the post.  Practice that stuff and I promise you will shoot better than any of your shooting buddies.  You won't stop moving but your woble will shrink and slowdown.
Daisy 853 with apertures; FWB 300S with apertures; Mike Melick tuned B-26 and B-40.
Dog - George, RIP

Offline gamo2hammerli

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Re: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2009, 02:27:56 PM »
Thanks for the responses concerning the raised right elbow thing.  Now that ac12basis and riflejunkie have explained it....it makes sense.....the angle of the grip....
Gamo: Expotec .177 + Big Cat .177 + Viper .177 + Whisper .177, Hammerli Titan .177, Diana model 24 .177, RWS-Diana P5 Magnum pistol .177, Crosman: G1 Extreme .177 + Storm XT .177 + Sierra Pro .177 + 1377 pistol .177, Air Arms S410SL .22, BSA Scorpion T10 .22, FX Cyclone .177, Remington Air Master 77 .177 + BB\'s,

Offline airgunandy

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RE: Shooting offhand #1
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 12:35:49 AM »
Even for a basic plinker like me, this is some good, useful info.

Thank you, riflejunkie and everyone else for the input!