Author Topic: Gas Ram CFX!  (Read 12836 times)

Offline daved

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Gas Ram CFX!
« on: January 09, 2007, 04:56:52 PM »
Okay, would someone please remind me of all the drawbacks to gas rams vs. springs?  Cause at the moment, I can't come up with a single one!  But I guess I'll start at the beginning.

The Theoben ram from Airgunwerks (David Slade) arrived on Saturday by Priority Mail.  Not much to look at, the gas struts on the hatch back on my Subaru are a lot bigger.  Since this was a mis shipment from Theoben UK, the instructions in the package were for a Webley Patriot.  Interesting, but not much help.  Instructions are available from the UK site, for everything EXCEPT Gamo's.  But by reading through all the different ones, I was able to get an idea of the general technique.  And since it can only go in one way, the only real question was what to do with the rear spring guide; shorten it, or remove it completely?  The Gamo strut goes in with the rod to the rear, and there are a couple of large washers staked to the end of the rod, sized to just fit the spring cylinder.  I first tried cutting the guide down so the washers ended up just in front of the trigger group, the this had the rams cylinder hitting the washers.  The only other answer was to remove the guide completely, using just the steel plug, and this ended up being the answer.  The ram cylinder gets a few wraps of tape at both ends, for a snug, centered fit in the piston.  And that's it for the install.  My next one will probably take me 15 minutes, and most of that will be cleaning all the old lube out!

I've heard that the rams take more cocking force, and that like a spring, it gets stiffer as you approach the end of the stroke.  That's not the case here.  Cocking is very linear, virtually no difference from start to finish, and either the same or slightly lighter than the spring.  Note: this had a JM Tarantula spring in it.

Oh, you want to know how it shoots!  I gotta say, I really didn't know what to expect.  Theoben claims less recoil, faster lock time, and smoother shot cycle, but we all know about sales hype.  Almost everything I've read has said just the opposite.  In this case, it's not hype.  I was expecting something more like my Diana 350, what I got was more like my IZH 61!  Recoil is noticeably less, very smooth, and with something I can only describe as SNAP!  I don't KNOW if the lock time is actually quicker, but it sure feels like it is.  Also, the rifle feels lighter.

Not sure what Theoben is going to claim for power, but it's definitely more than the UK limit of 12 fpe.  I'm not sure my numbers are representative at the moment, because I think I need a new piston seal.  But they're still quite respectable.  Prior to my spring collapse, I was getting about 900 fps with Superdomes.  After the collapse, I was getting a 768 fps avg. with a 60 fps spread for about 11 fpe.  With the ram installed, I got 883 fps, 15 fps spread, for 14.4 fpe.  I think a new piston seal and some improvement in the sealing system on the rotary breech could see a serious increase here.  Or install it in a break barrel.  I also need to retest with more pellets.  I haven't had the chance to do any accuracy testing yet, there's a busted Suburban in the middle of my indoor range right now!

So there you have it.  The ram was $145, and considering the results so far, I'd have to call that a bargain.  This is a "tune" that requires only the expertise needed to build or buy a spring compressor.  I finally built a compressor out of a pipe clamp and some scrap Ipe I had on hand.  Worked fine, now if I could only get a ram for my 350, I'd be set.  Later.

Dave

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 09:59:40 PM »
OHh thanks for the review. I still havent had my gun fixed yet, and im getting ancy to shoot it again. Anymore information you can add about parts needed or lil things that you needed to do. Like that rear plug and wrapping it with tape (id assume to hold it from rattling and centering it like you said). But this might be a viable option in my near future..

Jason

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 10:15:47 PM »
Hey Dave

Great stuff bud. Keep us informed on how everything works out.

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
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Offline daved

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2007, 03:05:13 AM »
That's the beauty of this "tune", there really aren't any additional parts needed.  I think I'd replace the piston seal while I was at it.  I need to check with JM about piston seals, I notice he has 3 different seals listed that would fit the Gamo, the Tesla is the most expensive, but the info on the site says it will handle the hottest springs, and that it's easy to fit.  Not sure if he has the small version available right now.  The other two are the Apex and the Hornet.  The Apex is the standard, and is what my gun has in it now.  I don't know anything about the Hornet.  I'd appreciate any info that anyone has on piston seals, like what the differences are between the three, and why is the Tesla $19 and the Apex only $9?

On the tape wrap, you could use just plain electricians tape.  I had some thicker rubber tape on hand, so a couple wraps of that, followed by a couple wraps of electricians tape and it was good to go.  I used the rubber tape for cushioning, and followed with the regular tape for the smoother, better wearing surface.  Sized it so it was a snug but not tight fit.  I'll be checking it after a few hundred shots and see how it's holding up.

If you look at the rear of the spring tube, after the plastic cover is off, there's a steel plug that the crosspin goes through to hold the spring assembly in place.  The rear spring guide is pressed into this steel plug.  To install the ram, you pull the whole thing out.  You end up with a very short pre-load on the ram, about 1/2".  The only other thing I did was clean out the spring tube of lube, a little silicone and moly on the piston, and put it all back together.  Next time I take it apart, I'll take pictures.  Later.

Dave

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RE: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2007, 03:47:01 AM »
Dave,   do the gas rams use the existing seal?  I thought it replaced the spring, piston, and seal.  I don't know why I thought that.

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2007, 04:19:55 AM »
The gas ram just replaces the spring and guides.

 I have a customer in England and he says the same thing that the COCKING effort is smooth and less than a stock rifle with a spring, and it does not get noticably stronger as you cock the rifle. He has three gamo's set up with the gas ram system.

If you made a ram using compressed air then it would get harder to cock as it compressed the air, but with a Nitrogen filled gas ram the gas is already under great pressure so you WILL NOT feel much increased pressure as you cock the rifle. Just like the gas cylinders on a hatch back door on a car if you take off one and compress it the pressure is the same from open to compressed.

I made a air filled piston and that was the problem it took to much effort to cock the rifle at the end of the stroke, it performed decent but i gave up on the idea for the tim being.


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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2007, 06:50:24 AM »
Can you post some contact information, what gas ram to order and anymore information on how to obtain one? Also can you get one with a higher fpe rating?

Offline daved

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2007, 07:14:53 AM »
Contact would be David Slade at Airgunwerks, link is in the Mall, but here it is: http://hometown.aol.com/airgunwerk/index.html
Up until very recently, the only Gamo strut available was a UK limit 12 fpe.  David told me several months ago that they had an 18 fpe strut in the works for the US market.  I'm pretty sure this is the one I got, although I'm not sure they're actually in full production yet.  I sent David an email this morning, got an automated response, he's out of town 'til the 16th.  Should be able to get more info when he gets back.  The other option is to contact Theoben UK, here's that link: http://www.theoben.co.uk/customer/home.php
Like I said, I'm getting about 14.5 fpe with Superdomes right now, and that's with a rifle I know isn't right.  I'm also not sure I've got the install right, I might get a little more out of it by increasing the preload on the ram.  That's one of the things I wanted to talk to David about, I know it makes a difference with springs, but not sure about the ram.  Will post more info as it develops.

Dave

Offline daved

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RE: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 07:18:30 AM »
I do.  Theoben makes a retro fit for another rifle, can't remember which but I want to say HW, that essentially replaces everything, the piston seal is on the end of the rams cylinder and becomes the new piston.  But they don't do it that way for any other guns.  The info is on the UK website, http://www.theoben.co.uk/customer/home.php.  HTH.

Dave

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 09:41:56 AM »
Rich

I have read many posts and reviews about the Gas Ram Dave is speaking of. All indications show that the difference between plain air and nitrogen is less than 2% difference in performance. Also I am pretty sure compressed air is already 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen.
 

I am impressed with Dave's review on the Gas Ram though. It could be a great alternative for our Gamo's. I don't think the Gas Ram will surpass the FPS that CFX's, Shadows models all ready produce. But FPS is not a big factor unless it is below the norm. Accuracy and consistancy is a big deal for me..:)

Have already read that Theoben will take your shirt, home and all your offsprings from you, if anyone tries to reproduce that Gas Ram... :) They are very firm on that....

Anyone have any information on this?

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline shadow

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 10:47:35 AM »
Question, maby we went over this in past threads. Are the gas rams hard on scopes and do they perform well under very cold weather. It gets darn cold here in S.D., Would the reaction time slow down. Is it just the fluid filled ones.? Thanks Ed
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 11:04:39 AM »
Hey Ed

The Gas Ram's, are single recoil and not double like conventional springers.. so I would imagine they would be less damaging on scopes, but why take a chance if  you have a nice $200.00 scope that is not AirRifle rated...:)

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline shadow

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 11:18:41 AM »
I agree and I could'nt get ANOTHER airrifle if I went this route he he he . Thanks Ed, airgun addict :p
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2007, 11:24:23 AM »
Ya Ed, there are allot of pros and cons on the Gas Ram's. Like Dave mentioned and the reason why they are not popular here in the US is basically because of the 12fpe factor. If Theoben starts making the 18fpe plus rams for US then you will see allot of conversions and more hyped articles.

The best thing going for the Gas Ram's, I think is the single recoil factor, but most of us have overcome the normal springer recoil air guns. And I don't know if accuracy would improve with a Gas Ram over a Springer that was set up correctly...:)

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline daved

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Re: Gas Ram CFX!
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2007, 12:22:42 PM »
This is right up there on the list of other bad things I've heard about gas rams.  I don't see how it could be any worse than a regular spring, it currently recoils LESS than it did with the spring, and I'm getting more power.  Not a recipe for eating scopes if you ask me.  Which you did, come to think of it :-)!

I don't know what effect cold weather will have on it.  The gas lifts in my Subaru are old enough that they hold fine in the summer, but don't hold when the temps drop much below 40.  Maybe I'll try to test this later, but for now, I don't think it would be much of an issue.

Hey, Gene, I think you are a little confused.  Of course, we all knew that, so I guess I'll have to be specific :-)!  Even with a gas ram, the physics are exactly the same as they are with a spring, so you still have a double recoil pulse.  Stop and think about it for a minute and you'll see what I mean.  But thanks, pal, I haven't had anything to pick on you for in quite awhile :-)!  More when I have it.

Dave