Dear Detroit:

[TCups]

Some time ago, we the tax payers gave (actually had taken from us) GM and Chrysler -- what was it? -- something like $35 Billion, and maybe more than twice that -- there were several installments, as I recall -- to "save" the jobs of the auto workers and prevent bankruptcy of these American giants of industry.  Bankruptcy was unthinkable and had dire consequences for the investors and bond holders and the economy.  Well, those billions are gone, Chrysler and GM are bankrupt after all, the stockholders and bond holders got screwed, and your government and the UAW now own Chrysler and GM.  A victory for our rapidly emerging Socialist's Worker's paradise here in Amerika, no doubt.

I, for one, will NEVER buy another automobile made by Chrysler or General Motors or UAW Union-run automobile manufacturer as long as I live, so help me God, presuming private citizens will even be able to buy an automobile other than those produced by our government and the UAW in the future.  If so, I suspect there may be a huge new tax applied to the purchase in order to subsidize the National Socialists Autoworkers products.  Sorry, all of you good folks who's livelihood depends on these companies, automobile dealers, parts manufacturers, etc., but that's it.  But don't worry, your government will take care of you better than free market capitalism ever could have.  Just like they are taking care of our retirement and our health care.

I think I may by myself a Honda motorcycle to have ready when the gas prices go back up and new car prices go through the roof, as they are going to undoubtedly do in the near future with the government running the show.

PS:  I hope you are all appropriately "stimulated" by the trillions of tax dollars our government is spending.  Change you we can count on?  Yes, they can!

[airgunandy]

Just think of the convenience once they bring out a federal drivers license! Get your new license and a new car at the same time. And once they come out with national auto insurance and federal auto loans from the government banks, buying a car will be sooooo easy!  :)

[Dutchspringer]

Don't you wonder what's going to happen when the first union pay negotiations come around now that the government owns half and the union owns half?  This is a recipe for disaster.  We the taxpayers are going to be fitting the bill for $70 per hour union lineworkers (plus benefits and retirement plan) for them to build cars that the government (read Obama) deems "green" enough for our consumption.  I agree with you T-cups, the only voice we have is with our wallets.  I believe this is why Obama wants to instate the "crush" program, where the cars that are traded in for the new "approved" green cars are to be crushed to ensure they don't see any more roadtime and "pollute" the environment.  Does this sound like the gun "turn-in" programs that Billy Bob Clinton was doing in cities like Denver and Chicago?  A lot of good that did, a bunch of poeple turned in their .22 rifles and single shot shotguns for food stamps and food cupons here in Denver!  Stupid!  I will not be seen buying a new car from any government owned company either.

[North Pack]

It's very early in the game here, - this is only the beginning. BO and "friends" (Congress) have no use for anything but "eco-friendly" golf carts for cars. Watch, seriously, - once this gets going, gas/fuel is going through the roof. It will be no accident, the intent is to make the smaller cars appealing cost wise. It's the ONLY way most Americans will even consider one. BO admires the socialist template of Western Europe - where gas is $5.00/$7.00 a gallon and bicycles/tiny cars are the only thing affordable. BO is backed by the "green energy" religion - and given enough time, while outlaw the competition, - gas/oil/coal and anything else in the way. Coal will taxed out of business, in spite of the fact we have all the "local" energy we need. We could achieve "energy independence" without what lies ahead.

[TCups]

Headline:
General Motors is open to considering moving its headquarters from Detroit, selling off U.S. plants and even renegotiating parts of its restructuring plan with its major union, the new chief executive said Monday.

Perhaps the "Motor City" should be renamed the "Voter City".  Did you get what you voted for, Detroit?  Obama is kind of like the Romans, except that he creates a desert, and calls it progress.  Hey Barak: Maybe Detroit needs a wall, kind of like East / West Berlin.  The stark photo of downtown Detroit that ran with the story on Drudge this morning definitely reminds me of East Berlin in the 60's.

[snatch]

I'd like to give a first hand perspective on this subject. First off I don't work in the automotive industry but I know plenty of people that do. I live about 20 miles west of Detroit and honestly these days that's way too close for me. But because of the economy and the amount of people affiliated with the auto industry that have lost their jobs we have way more houses available than people to occupy them. Simple supply and demand, I can't move unless I take one hell of a loss on my home and I just can't afford to do that. What most people don't realize is that if these companies aren't given aid and allowed to go under the devastating effect that it WILL have across the country. It's not only the direct employees that stand to lose their jobs but many other companies like all of the machine shops that most of the work they have comes from the big three, auto parts suppliers, restaurants, bars, and the list goes on. What I'm trying to say is that the big three has been the heart of American industry for 100 years and we can't just hang them out to dry. At the same time I'm definitely not saying that bailing them out with taxpayers money is the right thing to do either.
  In my opinion there are a few things that are responsible for them being in the state that they are in now.
  The first thing to blame is themselves. They have not conducted good business practices. They continue to employ and mainly hire friends and family, they have overpaid and under skilled workers. There was a time that I was trying to get a job with Ford and unless you knew someone forget about it. I now plenty of people that worked there that I wouldn't let change my oil.
  Next let's talk about the unions. They cost these companies millions of dollars. They give the employees the right to get away with murder. I can't begin to tell you how many people that have milked out medical and even a few received medical retirement for life, and they are as physically as capable as I am. The union had a purpose back in the 40's, it was to protect the workers civil liberties. These days there are laws in place for that, there is no need for unions, in my opinion it's all political BS.
  The government is at blame for allowing these foreign automakers to import their vehicles and set up shop here without having to pay a premium and jump through a bunch of hoops.
  The American public is at blame for buying this foreign rides allowing those companies to be successful. You can argue that they have built plants here and created jobs but all the real money is going back to the headquarters in Japan.
  If you really think about it the big three has really just tried to cater to the American public who want big high power shiny unpractical gas guzzling vehicles.
  I would agree that there should have been no bail out money but once the precedence was set by bailing out these banks what else could they do. Just remember GM and Chrysler have only received a fraction of what our financial institutions have.
  As for the city of Detroit, I think it's reputation speaks for itself, there is nothing I can say to defend that. They had to impeach the mayor and now they let him go to Texas and if he could run for office again today I'm sure those people would elect him again. I don't get it. It's just a shame that Detroit gives the rest of this great state a bad name.
  I apologize for this lengthy rant and I certainly don't have the answer to this problem, if I did I guess I would be a politician and then I would have to shoot myself.
  I hope that I didn't ruffle any feathers but if these companies fail you folks in the south are going to feel the effects as well as the rest of the country.

[Dutchspringer]

Hey snatch, very well thought out thread, thanks!  Just some thoughts, some without answers, but thoughts nevertheless.  I am in a situation in my life with a wife, four kids from two and a half (diapers) to eleven years old, and a business of nearly thirteen years that failed at the end of the year.  I am (was) a remodel/basement finish contractor, and saw a very good  business that took care of my family and two employees, five subcontractors, and countless periferal businesses going for that whole time.  Living in Denver, I keep hearing that we are nearly at the top of the heap compared to places like your home of Detroit, LA, and many other cities in terms of our economic and housing status.  Having said that, my situation is nearly an exact template of Detroit on a small scale.  With small companies like mine failing daily here, and around the country, along with it goes "countless" numbers of periferal suppliers, lumber stores, window, paint,plumbing etc.etc.etc. suppliers, and on down the line. From motorcycle dealers out here that can't give bikes away to the car dealerships up and down Broadway that are near empty because they are refusing shipment of the '09 models because they can't get rid of the '08's that they still have, everyone is feeling the squeeze.  Our public transit system here is called RTD (Rapid Transit District) and it is very common to see these huge expensive deisel busses running all over the city with one or two people in them.  The RTD is a total loss system (financially) and would be gone without constant public influx of money.  Amtrac corporation is a losing system and has been for over twenty years, but has been deemed all these years as "worthy" of public funds because of the American tradition of crossing the country in a train.  Harley Davidson has gone from a stock price of over $67 eight months ago to where it is now at around $14.  Why?  Among other reasons, including the age of their best boon ever- the baby boomers, their die-hard fans and purchasers are small business owners and principally the construction industry crowd (plumbing,electrical, HVAC contractors etc.).  These guys, like me, once had money and now not only don't have it but may well have lost their business like myself.  I am the first to admit that government help would be great- in a totally selfish way, but I wouldn't even loan myself money right now because I would have no way to pay myself back because the industry is gone.  We are WAY overbuilt here, as is Las Vegas, much of California, and many many other places in the US due to the use of illegal workers at a substandard wage building both residential and commercial properties with no market to purchase them.  The money brokers made their money and laughed all the way to the bank.  The landowners laughed all the way to the bank, not giving a hoot who would ever live in these homes, or rent these endless tracks of commercial properties.  Circuit City just went under, all their buildings sit vacant, and I see no-one clammering to run in and start a business to replace them.  Black Eyed Pea just went under, more vacancies.  There is scuttlebut about Lowe's Home Improvement stores not making it through 2010 if they can even make it through this year, and the same with Sports Authority.  Vacancies out here are making me remember the early 1980's, but with the difference being that they hadn't tore up every square inch of dirt to put another pre-fab concrete building there hoping for a tennant.  Manufacturing has left the country on a massive scale, so what are all of these workers going to do?  Where will all of these overpaid, undereducated GED and High School graduates with families going to go?  We made this mess, all of us, and getting out of it is going to be one feat of magic, and I don't believe in magic. I believe that if they would have been let to go bankrupt, like any other business, the assets could have been auctioned off and a smaller more efficient business would have bloomed, making a product that would be very focused on it's clientel.  Instead, you will have an even larger, more beaurocratic and top-heavy pig of a business that will sell cars that meet all sorts of arbitrary "green" standards THAT NO-ONE WILL WANT TO BUY!  Would you buy a brand new "green" car that costs $13000 off the showroom floor that fits four people and gets 30 miles to the gallon when you could come here any day of the week and pay 7 to 9 thousand dollars for a fully loaded beautiful used late model Excursion, Deisel pickup, or sedan of your choice- literally.  Craig's list is absolutely full of these cars.  Church parking lots are full of people selling their cars to make the mortgage payment for a fraction of what they bought them for when new.  Obama is wanting to have these cars crushed upon trade in for a new one because he knows the reality of this situation.It simply can't work on paper, and that means it probably won't work in reality.  This is why my prediction is that these companies- GM and Chrysler for now, will be permanent governmental union institutions that will forever be embroiled in red tape and political "quid pro quo" with unions trading votes at the ballot box for pay-scale rates and benefit packages.  Like I said before, we all made this mess in one way or another, and now we're sitting in it.  Ross