An update from Oklahoma

[grackledown]

What exactly is it that you want? A theocracy? There are plenty of those in this world, but I woudn't want to live there. An end to Social Security, Medicare, public education? Pick your right wing Latin American dictatorship. The right of corporations to dump their toxic waste wherever they please, even if it's behind your kids school yard? Bush callls that "Voluntary Compliance".
 There was an election last November. You lost. Get over it. For eight years this country was led by an ignorant, lazy, stupid adolescent, who was drunk till he was forty. And what has this wrought? Two open wars, a nuclear(or as Bush would say "nukula") North Korea, the worst economy since the Great Depression, and 47 million people with no health insurance (of course that can only be their fault, right?). This was a president who made decisions based on what he believes, not what he knows, because he knows nothing.
ENOUGH!
It seems that there are some people, particularly in the southern states that are fighting the Civil War all over again. You lost that too. Get over it. To those who would like to secede from the Union, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[North Pack]

Love it, - another angry leftie, even when the manage to win one, they still have a problem. This country was founded with the intent of  "less government" not a copy of the places, mostly  European monarchies that they came from. If you have such a problem with individual rights & states rights, - YOU take a hike. This thing isn't over by a long shot, - many more years of this ahead. I'm remember seeing whining lefties all "gonna move away" after Bush won, - they didn't, but I wish the hell they had. There's nothing more innovative and cost effective than American enterprise setting their sights on delivering new products, ideas, solutions to everyday life - NOT some stupid government program, loaded down with more bureaucrats and regulations on top of regulations. The Dept. of Agriculture has almost as many employees as there are freakin' farmers!!! How could anyone have a problem with things like that???? ... The likes of Harry Reid, Pelosi, et al pontificating to us - screw 'em. Don't look now, try and enjoy yourself, - but there's a mid-term election coming up - and the party in power usually loses a few seats in those. BO's road show will (is about) hit a serious and well deserved detour.

[grackledown]

Perhaps if I pose the following question I might better understand where you folks are coming from. The question is simple. Should the issue of segregation have been left to the states? If the answer is no, then this discussion can continue. If it is yes, then there really isn't anything else to talk about. Yes or no.

[North Pack]

This thread isn't about segregation, - but if you want to start one, - don't know about the others, but it's fine with me. States rights involves/covers a huge number of issues, don't see segregation as one of them, - that seems to be your hang-up.

[grackledown]

That's right. States rights covers a huge number of issues. Segregation is one of them.
Yes or no?

[North Pack]

Read my answer again.

[grackledown]

Read my question again.

[airgunandy]

Why does everything have to be about race? Why can't we all just get along?


The original post dealt with States rights. Do the rights of the individual states trump the rights of the Federal government?
What the states do with those rights is a different discussion.

For the record, I believe racial segregation is wrong.
I believe any form of racism is wrong. Including trying to find it in places where there isn't any.

[grackledown]

First of all, thank you. Second, you may want to read a little more about the history of segregation and the call for states rights. It isn't hard, just google "states rights segregation". And while you may believe that segregation is wrong there are many who do not. It took the federal government to step in and stop it. This proves that there are some issues that can not be left to the states. Exactly which issues are a matter for debate.
As far as there not being any racism here, it will take more people answering the question that I posed to settle that issue.

[North Pack]

gd, - no one doubts there are unpleasant individuals around - ie racists. There always have been and always will be. That's NOT what today's states rights movement is all about. Deep down I think you know that, - but enjoy using that smokescreen.  No one questions the need for a Federal government - the (coming) debate is just how much the Feds should be involved. There are many outside of our cities that do NOT want to see us "changed" into a socialist state and will use any means to stop BO - and that debate/fight is just starting. When BO says he needs to do things in a hurry - he's right. Any delay - and his programs are pretty much toast, especially with a Congressional change after the mid-term elections.
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In response to increasing federal encroachment, a growing number of states have passed and proposed resolutions to assert the Tenth Amendment and the Bill of Rights of the Constitution.

map    
   
This map shows a growing number of states that have passed and propose resolutions to assert the Tenth Amendment and the Bill of Rights of the Constitution.    
   
The Tenth Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights and was ratified on December 15, 1791. It states the Constitution’s principle of Federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states and to the people. It is based on an earlier provision of the Articles of Confederation: “Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”

On this resource page, you will find links to the various bills and proposed bills by the states, articles covering this important topic, and related videos.

Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering such measures.

[Dust]

No offense GD, but I think you are missing the point.  If any segregation went on, I would say it would be more based on language than color.  I know the USA isn’t perfect, but as a current member of the less than 5% minority in my current country, and probably closer to 1% in my place of residence, and as the only person of my color that I am likely to see on any given work week, I can promise you that the racism card is a little outdated in the USA.  Are there racists in the US, yes, but until you have lived in the Far East for several years, and not on a Military Base, I question your tolerance level.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.  I highly doubt that the current run on states rights will be in any way related to segregation.  The states want what was given to them, and are legislating it while they still can.  Will states rights allow segregation?  It’s possible, in some backwards town in the middle of nowhere.  I know a town that in my lifetime had it’s first Melanin infused person come to their school, and the parents actually asked the ISD if people of their tint were allowed.  Pardon the references, but I am just trying to break it all the way down.  â€œRace” hits a note with me. I knew an American born and raced in Africa that doesn’t call herself African American, but I know of several who have never been near there or have family 6 generations back that do.

[Gene_SC]

For what it is worth, I believe that all races whether black brown green yellow or white should all have the same balance of opportunities. I do not believe the Feds had any business forcing the states to conform to there decisions on desegregation or segregation. Since all this mess has started I have seen people be handed jobs and opportunities that they did not qualify for just because of race. In my book that is not fair. So if you were yellow and were competing for a job with a white person and the state says the feds say to hire the yellow person even though they do not qualify for the job. It happens all the time since the feds stepped in. Not say that it was any fairer prior to the law but still a person no mater what color should be hired or given an opportunity for there merits and not there color. Just my opinion.

And another thing is I am 62 years old and do you think I am not discriminated against when I apply for a job...:) You betcha and have even been told that I was to old and could no fit in with the younger employees............ Even though I had more experience and qualified for the position offered.

[grackledown]

If this is true then you can sue them for being in violation of The Age Discrimination in Employment Act, a federal law.
Now then, do I understand you correctly? Are you saying that the issue of segregation should be left to the states? Or are you confusing desegregation with affirmative action?

[Gene_SC]

As a business owner I want the right to hire my employee's according to experience and merit. I do not want the state or feds to tell me how to run my business. All the desegregation, segregation and affimative action is a bunch of crap as far as I am concerned. We never had a problem until the liberals were tuned loose in the 60's.

[grackledown]

Was this a problem?