Blackpowder info? Price per shot? Confusion!

[BumbleShot]

My cousin and I are selling off a bunch of powder burners (.300 H&H Mag, .257 Roberts, etc.)  and we're getting into Inline .50 cal black-powder Muzzleloaders.

I am having a really hard time finding actually good information in the form of bulletin boards and other sites beyond the choked up and fluffy search engine returns (goog and yahoo).  Cabelas has a lot of info on the basics, but I'm looking for folks on a budget like us (aren't we all!) who might suffer the questions of  a blackpowder newbie like myself.  It's 5 months to Deer season and I'm studying best I can.  I know the very basics.  My cousin is much more experienced and is also new to muzzleloaders.

We are going with either a Traditions Pursuit of some sort, likely a Pro or II, or if we go spendy a T/C Omega.

We'll likely be using a charge at 50-80 grn Pyrodex pellet loads, at ranges up to 100 yards.  Hopefully closer.  I was thinking a 300gr Plains lead conical, if the rifle likes them.  We only need a 4" group at 100 yards.  Was also think sabots but i don't think we need to bother with those at such short ranges.  Fact is, I really don't know about this stuff!  The PA/NY woods are either tight woods or meadows.

How much per shot are we looking at in a muzzle loader?  I used to thinking a $.06 Beeman FTS is spendy!  Sighting in with 10  rounds per season which can be 2 or 3x a year.  

As you may know, Centerfire rifles are spendy per shot as well.  At minimum $1 a shot for .223. Closer to $2 for most ~.30 cal.

Muzzleloader costs about:

80gr pellets for
$0.44

245gr Conical T/C .50 bullet or similar
$0.50

209 Primer
$0.10 each (Winchester seve7 209 primers)

$1.04 per shot

That's about $1.20 maybe more a shot if you figure shipping.  That's more than 30-06 ammo...

Is there a place you guys trust for info akin to  GTA for muzzleloaders that you trust?  Maybe you guys alone can help me wade through all this stuff.  It isn't airguns, afterall.  Much simpler actually!

Thanks for any info.

[ronbeaux]

I feel your pain. It is known that it costs more to shoot black powder than airguns. But that's a good thing. Back in the day a lot of the black powder rifle shooters would practice with airguns because the lag time in the barrel was almost the same. They could shoot thousands of rounds through the airguns practicing the follow through and then pick up the black powder gun and be almost exactly like the airgun. Their scores improved and they became better shooters because of the practicing with airguns.

If it were me I would check out the black powder comps results and see what they were using and then practicing with an airgun with similar muzzle velocity. It will save you a lot of money practicing.

I don't follow it any more, but I would think that it would be easy to research it on the web.

Unlike regular fire arms that shoot 2500 to 3500fps, the black powder guns shoot similar fps to airguns and you have to be able to hold the follow through to shoot them well.

My 2 cents

Remember: Consistant load and consistant propellant equals consistant scores using a good quality barrel.

I used to shoot some of their rigs and was able to hold my own because of the airguns. The only difference I saw was the noise and smoke.

Good luck and happy shooting!

[Bogey]

Bumbleshot,  Regarding your post on Black powder shooting.  Most people that use Muzzle loaders for hunting in this part of the country do so because the Deer season  for muzzle loaders starts before Center fire Deer season.  This gives them the chance to get out and scout the country side earlier.  And if they are able to take a deer, so much the better.
At one time I shot a lot of Black powder but not right now.  If I were you, I would probably go for the .45cal bullet.  Since you are planning to keep your limited yardage to 100 yds. Use the modern jacketed soft-point style, or the Barnes copper hollow point.  If the state laws permit, put a scope on the rifles.

But for actual 'Economy',  doubt that you will see little improvement in cost.   As stated above, it will  give you the chance to spend more time in the woods.   Like AGs,  with muzzle loaders you just seem to need that something extra all the time.

BTW, modern muzzle loaders can shoot tighter than 4 inch groups at 100 yds.  I could shoot 2 inch groups with a Thompson Center Hawken years ago from a rest at 100yds. And this was with patched round ball in 50 cal.

[RedFeather]

Get yourself a good book like Black Powder Digest or such.  One of the old Sam Fadala load manuals would be great, as well.   I recommend loose powder, even for inlines such as you are looking at.  The reason being you can't tailor or fine-tune your loads with pellets.  Start with a recommend load and go up or down in five grain increments until she hits where you want her to.  BTW, 80 grains is a good hunting load.  So many store clerks send newbies out the door with a load of two or even three fifty grain pellets which is way more than you need for most North American game.  The only good the extra powder does is punch you in the shoulder, which is bad for accuracy and enjoyment, especially when practicing off a bench.  Lead conicals are fine if you don't want to shoot sabots.  Plus pure lead has a high cohesive factor and will really hang together upon impact.  Be sure you clean your gun thoroughly after shooting.  Black powder and many of the substitutes leave the soot or "fouling"  in the barrel which soaks up moisture like a sponge.  Not hard to rust a bore overnight.  Do check the game laws to see if the inlines and projectiles are allowed.  PA has relaxed theirs of late but may still be strict where inlines are concerned.

BTW, BP is still cheap since you don't shoot a whole bunch like you do with airguns or rimfires.  It's a sport that yields the greatest satisfaction taking a relaxed approach.  Good luck with your hunts.  So, what was the .375 H&H in?  Had a friend with the caliber in a Ruger No.1 Heavy Tropical.  What a sweet gun and quite versatile with handloads, too.

[BumbleShot]

I'm not sure what rifle it started as.

And thanks for all the BP info.  We'll consider loose powder as it seems the way that the experts prefer to go as well.  With those plastic load carriers, loose isn't such an inconvenience.

I think a book on loads is a great idea.  Thanks for the info!