Author Topic: "How much" PCP questions  (Read 6901 times)

Offline Dust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • http://
"How much" PCP questions
« on: June 17, 2009, 10:34:29 PM »
I have been reading a lot about PCPs, and the information that I see is overwhelming.  I am at the level of understanding where I need to determine what stuff I want.

1.   Single-shot vs. repeater
2.   How many FPE is needed?
3.   Barrel interchangeability
4.   Which caliber?

I like the air force stuff because of the barrel interchangeability, but as far as I can tell, there is no repeater stuff available for it. Right now I am between the Marauder in 22, or a condor in 22/25, and whatever else I decide on for accessories or mods, and how far I want to take it.  I don’t really have any set in stone requirements, aside from less than $700 for the gun.  Would like the So

Can the Marauder barrel be interchanged easily, or is there a magazine available or in the works for the Air-force guns?  I wouldn't mind going 9mm barrel for dogs or pigs, but that would be later, and it may be cheaper to go subsonic AR.

Offline daved

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
    • http://
RE: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 04:36:16 PM »
No multi shot option for the AF guns, and none likely any time soon, the inline design of the AF tank/valve makes it damn near impossible.  Regarding the rest of your questions, you need to answer one or two first.  What is your primary use, and what range will you be using it at?

I've owned single shots and repeaters, I currently have 2 single shots.  Much as I liked my Cyclone, I was never in such a target rich environment that a fast follow up shot really mattered.  And for targets, you just go through pellets faster :-).

Power, or FPE, depends on what you're shooting.  Check out the Hunting Gate, lots of game taken with sub-15 fpe springers.  I recently took a fair sized ground hog with a .177 S200 set right at 15 fpe, for me, that was probably a bit of a stretch.  I prefer 20 fpe or so for game that size, but that's just me.  I happen to like .177's, at around 20 fpe that's plenty of power for anything I'd shoot out to 40 yards.  Again, that's just my opinion.

The interchangeable barrels of the AF guns are a nice feature, but don't make your choice based on that feature.  There's a lot of fiddling around needed to make one gun work with a 12" .177 barrel and a 24" .22 barrel.  You're probably better off with 2 different guns.

Caliber is also dependent on what you're going to be doing with it.  Most of my shooting is paper in my back yard, and the occasional hunting I do is served nicely by .177's.  But I have self imposed limits on game and range, I'll shoot birds all day at 40 yards, maybe more, ground hog size game stops around 30 yards, and something like a raccoon is 20 yards or less.  I wouldn't tackle a pig with an air gun, big bores might be capable, but my .308 damn sure is, those little buggers are MEAN!  IF I felt the need to shoot a coyote, I'd put it in the same class as a raccoon.  But when's the last time you got within 20 yards of a coyote?  Hope that's some help, later.

Dave

Offline Dust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 05:51:25 PM »
I’m currently looking at a bird gun springer, probably the b25 or 26, or a multi-pump pneumatic like the 2100 or a 1377. I would like to go out to 100 yards, and use would be birds at 50+, and as a replacement for a 22 with less range.  I would like to have a 177 and a 22 barrel for whatever I get, so that I can have a bird barrel and a bigger barrel.  The pig is one of those way down the road pipe dreams.  That niche is now filled by an SKS and may be replaced by a Model 1 Sales Ar-15 if the magazine and firing pin problems get figured out.  I just want something that fits between a 22LR and a slingshot for now.  Don’t want to spend $150 on a springer if a PCP can be turned down to take birds in the backyard.

Offline kiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1410
    • http://www.nzairgunners.com
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 07:17:38 PM »
Hi..theres nothing wrong with a good springer...i have taken god knows how meany
rabbits with .177 springers..and they are nothing startling just the avarage garden
type springer...I f you were to go to a PCP..look for one that has a adjustable power out put
My .22 Career Infinity can be set anywhere from 400fps up to 1220fps  "16gr pellet" so it can be set for
sparrows at 10m or rabbits at 100m...Theres a lot of choices in adjustable power out put PCPs...
A repeter is the way to go....I only know of one true repeter .." mite be a semi auto"
most you have to manualy  cock between shots...but thats worlds better than loading each pellet each shot..

I surpose it all comes down to the dollars in the end...


Peter
Kiwi

Spring guide sets...  http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?
http://www.nzairgunners.com

If guns are outlawed ONLY outlaws will have guns

A tin of Gamo pellets is like a box of chocs U never know what yer going to get.....



Offline Dust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 09:34:27 PM »
Yeah, it comes down to money.  Why spend 150 on a springer and a PCP when I can buy a PCP and a pump or tank.

Offline ribbonstone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
    • http://
RE: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 12:49:25 AM »
I do prefer single shots, have some repeaters but single shots fit my needs/desires better (same with centerfires for hunting).  Nothing against those who have to have a repeater, I'm just happier without.  We start making semi-auto PCP's (othere than custom rigs), I'll start buying repeaters.

Have an AirFroce Talon, and have had spare barrels for it.  Always seem to end up with just one barrel installed and selling off the others.  Once you get it dialed in just right, takes something drastic to make me take it apart to change the barrel.

Caliber would probably be better as a .22.  The PCP's you mention are fast.  TOO fast for the cheap .177 pellets to work unless you dial the gun down in power...will work with some of the heavy .177's, but all in all. .177 powerful PCP's are very picky about what they'll shoot well.   The .25's are great, but you need to be aware of just how much more .25's cost, the barrels for the talon are all custom items, and unless you're really going to shoot hot-rod fast, isn't a good reason to go .25.  Leaves the 5mm and the .22, and of the two, are a whole lot more heavy weight .22 choices than there are in .20.

Am going to leave power to you to decide, but will mention that accuracy is more the limiting factor than power.
Robert

Offline Dust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 01:33:21 AM »
I would definitely look into power control if I was using separate barrels. I will spend more time looking into the marauder and condor. and decide what I want to do.

Offline longislandhunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8204
    • http://
RE: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 01:51:24 AM »
Lots of good advice already given to you by the other members so no need for me to "re-hash".

You mentioned you were considering the Marauder and the Air Force Condor.    I own both, in .22 cal, and both are fine rifles.  The Condor is an absolute hammer !!  It's power is amazing as is it's accuracy.  I bought my Condor to hunt medium sized game such as woodchucks, raccoons, possums, etc... and the gun is perfect for this.  Yes it's a single shot but I have to tell you,,,, the Air Force rifles are so easy to load that your reload time is amazingly fast.  When you cock the bolt open you are left with a wide open, large loading port area that easily facilitates your fingers and the loading process is extremely fast and easy.  Barrel changes are a snap on the Air Force rifles but like you've already been told once you change barrels you have to reset the gun up for maximum performance for the new barrel.  I have no plans on changing barrels on my Condor, it is set up so sweet that I wouldn't dare touch it.  I also have an 18" barreled .22 Talon that I use for small game in the winter and turn into a CO2 bird gun in the summer by using the Air Force CO2 adaptor.  On CO2 my Talon is now shooting right around the 700 FPS area according to my chrony testing.  The CO2 is a nice option to have I think and it works extremely well on starlings and pigeons out to 40 yards.  


As for the Marauder...... amazing rifle !!  powerful, accurate, quiet, well balanced , just an overall amazing rifle.  The 10 shot  clip is a nice feature and reloading is very fast, but honestly I can reload my Condor just as fast pellet by pellet.  The Marauder is a great small game gun and I am eagerly awaiting the opening of small game season here but if I were going after raccoons, pigs or coyotes I would use my Condor instead as I believe it 's much better suited to that sized game.  Others opinions may differ but that's how I feel.  

If you are looking for a PCP to use for both small game and for pest birds I'd advise getting the Marauder.  My Marauder is getting a good 50 - 60 shot count out of a 2500 psi fill and that's more than enough for a serious pest bird hunt and absolutely enough for a days small game hunt.  I used my Marauder the other day for a bird hunt shooting starlings and had a great time.  I had more than enough shots available and was popping birds out to 50 yards with no problem shooting from a steady rest.  Also, the Marauders power can be adjusted, not as easily as the Air Force rifles but it can be adjusted to suit the pellet your using and your power requirements.  However, keep in mind that even tweaked to the max power level the Marauder is not going to even come close to the power of a Condor....  My biggest problem with my Condor was keeping it from sending 32 and 48 gr pellets over 1100 FPS   :)    Right now I have it shooting 32 gr Eunjins  at 1040 FPS and it's shooting dime sized or smaller groups  :)

Well, there's my 2 cents.  Whatever you buy hope you wind up with what you like and enjoy....

Jeff
\"If it was easy it wouldn\'t be hunting, it would be shopping.\"

Offline gamo2hammerli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6261
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 03:11:42 AM »
Daved; Thanks for your Cyclone....its multi-shot feature helped me take out 3 grackles in a minute.  Check out the "Gone in Sixty Seconds" thread in the "Hunting Gate".

Ribbonstone; As Kiwi said there's only one real semi-auto PCP without custom work..... the FX Monsoon.  There might be others that I'm not aware of.  Guess it's time for you to start buying repeaters heh heh.

Dust; The above shooters are more familiar to airguns and PCPs so no need for me to chime in.....  Just a side note, the easiest ones to adjust power I would think would be the FX Cyclone and Air Arms 410.....they both have a knob or lever on the side of the gun to change from low, mid and high power.  But pretty sure you can't change their barrels.  The only PCPs that you can change barrels easily would be the AF ones; Talon and Condor.
Gamo: Expotec .177 + Big Cat .177 + Viper .177 + Whisper .177, Hammerli Titan .177, Diana model 24 .177, RWS-Diana P5 Magnum pistol .177, Crosman: G1 Extreme .177 + Storm XT .177 + Sierra Pro .177 + 1377 pistol .177, Air Arms S410SL .22, BSA Scorpion T10 .22, FX Cyclone .177, Remington Air Master 77 .177 + BB\'s,

Offline Gene_SC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
    • http://www.airguntoys.com
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 05:23:19 AM »
Stan I have enjoyed the features of the FX Cyclone now for over 4 years. Never a problem and always righ on the money if I do my part. I just love mine and I am sure you feel the same about yours.
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline gamo2hammerli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6261
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 08:24:40 AM »
Sure do Gene.  Taken out at least 5 Starlings and a Grackle with her so far.  And almost got a "clean" sheet in the Rested PCP 30 Yards Match (Actually I shoot the 30 yard ones at 30 meters)....only had two misses.

Only thing I wonder is why they don't have a plug for the hole where you fill the gun with air.  Eventually some fine dust particles might find a way into the air chamber.  I had once seen in GTA where someone made a brass cylinder plug for that hole.....I believe he was selling them.  Do you remember Gene?

Sorry to hijack Dust's thread....
Gamo: Expotec .177 + Big Cat .177 + Viper .177 + Whisper .177, Hammerli Titan .177, Diana model 24 .177, RWS-Diana P5 Magnum pistol .177, Crosman: G1 Extreme .177 + Storm XT .177 + Sierra Pro .177 + 1377 pistol .177, Air Arms S410SL .22, BSA Scorpion T10 .22, FX Cyclone .177, Remington Air Master 77 .177 + BB\'s,

Offline daved

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 11:19:44 AM »
I think this is what you're looking for, Stan: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1245368140/FX+Fill+Port+plugs+%26amp%3B+Falcon+fill+probes  Glad to hear the Cyclone is treating you well, and yes, I'm pretty sure selling that rifle was a dumb move.  Later.

Dave

Offline Gene_SC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
    • http://www.airguntoys.com
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2009, 11:29:07 AM »
I wondered that to Stan but I just use a piece of black electrical tape over the fill hole. It comes off easy and can be use several times. That is a good post on the plugs for the FX, Dave. Thanks Now when I get time I will make me one on my lathe..:)
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

Offline kiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1410
    • http://www.nzairgunners.com
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2009, 07:53:38 PM »
Quote
gamo2hammerli - 6/20/2009  3:11 AM

Daved; Thanks for your Cyclone....its multi-shot feature helped me take out 3 grackles in a minute.  Check out the "Gone in Sixty Seconds" thread in the "Hunting Gate".

Ribbonstone; As Kiwi said there's only one real semi-auto PCP without custom work..... the FX Monsoon.  There might be others that I'm not aware of.  Guess it's time for you to start buying repeaters



Off course the FX monsoon    for got about that one , Not the one I was thinking of..AR6
THERE'S TWO?


Pete
Kiwi

Spring guide sets...  http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?
http://www.nzairgunners.com

If guns are outlawed ONLY outlaws will have guns

A tin of Gamo pellets is like a box of chocs U never know what yer going to get.....



Offline gamo2hammerli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6261
    • http://
Re: "How much" PCP questions
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 12:16:42 AM »
Daved; Thanks, that's what I was talking about.....only it was in the "Yellow forum"....thought it was here.  Nah, selling the Cyclone to me was an excellent move!!!

Gene; I like the electric tape method....I had thought of using a pencil or a shaved piece of wood (It's so "redneck").
Gamo: Expotec .177 + Big Cat .177 + Viper .177 + Whisper .177, Hammerli Titan .177, Diana model 24 .177, RWS-Diana P5 Magnum pistol .177, Crosman: G1 Extreme .177 + Storm XT .177 + Sierra Pro .177 + 1377 pistol .177, Air Arms S410SL .22, BSA Scorpion T10 .22, FX Cyclone .177, Remington Air Master 77 .177 + BB\'s,