Author Topic: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)  (Read 3250 times)

Offline avidairgunner

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Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« on: July 11, 2009, 02:15:11 PM »
Hello everyone...my first post here and its pretty demanding I think :P  A couple of weeks ago I took the Quest 1000 after a very long time. I was doing some plinking to get the gun zeroed when I noticed that it was shooting all over the place. For example. 3-4 inch groups at 20 yards Shocked When I was shooting this at the beginning of the year the gun would shoot under an inch at the same distance with ease. So last night I took the gun apart and what do I see is a broken spring.



Now since I have the gun apart, I wanted to know what kind of spring should I replace this with and also what kinda piston....I am new to this and also this is my first gun that I have taken apart so excuse my noobness (is that even a word?)

Also, below in the second and third picture, you will see the piston and notice one of the lip area is kinda worn down....seems kinda flat and also has a black spot for some odd reason.





btw, how do I take off this piston to replace it with another one? I am having trouble taking the piston off obviously so please advise on how to take this off

In addition, I also want to mention that you will see in the pic below that there is a little whole for a screw that is visible. This is where the screw for the scope stop was sticking inwards towards the chamber. I want to know how I can smooth out this spot. Also, when I was taking out the piston guide ( I think that is what its called), the part with the piston on it, it took a lot of effort to take out. I thought it was suppose to be smoother than that. What can I do to make it smooth?



BTW, the gun was pretty dry except for the rear guide and the spring which had some sort of oil that I wiped off. Other than that, the gun was pretty dry: the cylinder walls in which the front guide or piston moves back and forth was bone dry and had a few light scratches (how can I smooth these out?)

You will see more pictures below and thus my question is that what materials do I need to get this job done

1) New Spring
2) New Piston
3) Moly or Tar (are they the same thing?)
4) ????? What else do I need I am kinda blank



What is that thing called inside this cylinder?



I know that I have asked MANY questions but please understand that I want to get this gun up and running and would REALLY REALLY appreciate the help


Offline mikeiniowa

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RE: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 03:32:57 PM »
the small black spot on the seal is nothing more than a mark made when they molded the seal, lots of the chinese seals have them. You will need a new seal, get the problem solver set, as to the spring I'm not positive but possibly the E3650 ( Bob which one is it??? Gene>????) get the small tar and small moly if possible otherwise I can send you enough to do one rifle, the tin cylinder inside the piston is called a liner, it's there to keep spring vibration down and make the rifle cock smoother. You will need to get a brake cylinder hone at the car parts store to remove the scratches inside the cylinder...may also need an extention bar to reach all the way in to the end of the cylinder. get some 220, 320, 400, 600 grit emery paper for smoothing the cocking slot etc....look around the library here there may be a tune guide in there...Mike
visit airgunforum.net you will have to register, there is a tune for the B-18/19/quest there,,,,,to remove the seal all you need do is slip a small screwdriver under the back where it touches the piston and pry it off, to put one on just hook it over the button on one side and pry it on with a small screwdriver, I have a special made tool as I do them all the time...

Offline avidairgunner

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 05:35:25 PM »
mikeiniowa: Thank you for your detailed reply. Appreciate the help. Things are much clearer now, thanks to you.

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 11:39:57 PM »
Ya the 3650 will replace the stock spring. You can use your old spring guide with it.
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Offline tjk

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 11:52:55 PM »
Has, the best 'drop in' spring (without the need to modify the rear spring guide) would be the Macarri E 3650 Ultra spring. Mikes suggestion on the seal ( the problem solver seal kit) is another good idea as well. Gives you two seals,...The red Apex seal, and the dark purple/blue Tesla seal. I've use both and seem to get a slightly better velocity with the Apex. My Quest varients didn't have a piston sleeve in them as Mike suggested, But the small spring guide ( or top hat as often called) in the piston end should slide out with ease. Another thing to remember, is that the seal seat crimped on at the end of the piston should be free to turn. At least from my experience it should. You should polish the top of the top hat, and if you don't bother with adding thrush washers between it and the inside of the piston,...just add a bit of moly between the top hat and seal seat (inside of the piston) so they can turn freely from each other. I think this is done to reduce the spring torque during the firing cycle.
As for the spring, be sure to polish the sharp edges on each end so they won't 'dig' into the 'seat' of the top hat, and the rear spring seat (the black part) that slides down over the rear spring guide for the same reason. A small washer between the spring and the rear seat will also help avoid damage/wear on the rear spring seat. You may have to perform a bit of 'dremil' modifying to make a washer work.
Now here's a controvertial topic for you,...but this is my take on it,....Spring guides!!!!! With the top hat, some think it should fit tightly on the end of the spring,...some feel it's better to have a slightly loose fit. Well I've done both, and really can't tell much of a discernable difference. The G1 I tuned with a loose fitting tophat/spring connection has a very smooth firing cycle with very little torque movement,...and the same results on a Sierra-Pro that had a tight fitting top-hat. Jury's still out on that one. But the rear guide is a different story. The spring should fit somewhat snug on the rear guide,...and chances are the factory rear guide isn't snug with the spring. There are a few remedies a 'home' tuner can do, to reduce the spring buzz/twang. You can band aid the guide, tar the crap out of the spring, etc., etc. A custom made guide is really the way to go,..but for a simple home tune,....You may try this. I often heard that shrink tubing (available from electric suppliers) works,...but it with tear easily after extended use. So here's what I tried,...with pretty good results. Bob and Gene will probably want to shoot me for this!!!!,......but I cleanned/degreased the rear guide on a G1, and TIGHTLY and EVENLY wrapped a strip of two inch packaging tape around the front end of the guide. Once I found the right amount of thickness for the spring to slide over it without slipping off,. I took a lighter and heated up the tape seam to seal it in place.
Study up the sight Mike suggested, and check out the library section for more tips and tuning proceedures. It a wealth of information!!!
The best part of 'home-tuning' a springer is the sense of accomplishment and achievement you get,...and the fact that you've improved you weapon. And it's alot of fun to tinker with these BB-Guns. Make sure you use a spring compresor for safety sakes!!! Good Luck!! Thomas
PS These are only my thoughts and opinions on home tuning,...others may agree or disagree, and that's ok,...But these methods have worked just fine for me!!!! tjk  
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Offline jayschevy

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RE: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 12:44:11 AM »
you could use the spring out of a qf-2 kit for a b3 if you wanted to.they fit.i put one in an old quest 1000 i had.that spring from maccari is great.but it was to long for my quest 800,i had to cut the part that slides onto the guide so the gun would cock,maybe yours is different.p.s.take the scope stop off and the piston will slide in and out very easy.be sure to deburr the holes on the end of the tube.
i didnt and took a chip out of my new red maccari seal :0
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Offline avidairgunner

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 09:14:31 AM »
Gene SC: Thanks I will get the srping.

tjk: Thomas, very detailed guide you gave, I like that. Very helpful, and if I feel I need any further guidance would it be okay to send you a PM?

jayschevy: if for some odd reason the Macarri E 3650 Ultra spring does not fit I will follow your advice and cut the part but it seems that this spring is a pretty straight forwards fit. Thank you ALL for the help....also..I would like to know where to apply moly and tar on this gun

Offline mjb108

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 09:29:00 PM »
This guide is for a different gun but much applies and it is fun reading.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5566&posts=11&highlight=cheap seats&highlightmode=1#M39844

Mike

Offline avidairgunner

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Re: Broken Spring...Need help with tune (Pics)
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 12:11:57 PM »
Thanks