What "climate change" is really all about, ....

[North Pack]

The earth has had "climate change" since day one, - witness the ice ages, - come and gone without any government help.
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http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1893/Gore-US-Climate-Bill-Will-Help-Bring-About-Global-Governance

[geiger]

i'm a strong supporter of pollution prevention. but i can safely say Gore is a phony and a scam. i actually hate the fact that he's the unofficial global warming ambassador.
Gore has stock in carbon credit companies that will presumably come in full force on the market sometime in the near future. such a good way to capitalize on our plight.

politics aside...i believe in global warming, to the extend that humans surely aren't making things any better by throwing in the atmosphere tons upon tons of toxic and other hazardous gasses. but i personally don't really give a s*** about rising temperatures. i'm more afraid of the pollution and destruction of our environment.
well, you are probably wondering where is all the so called pollution...it moved to the third world countries, if all the heavy/chemical industry remained in the US (developed countries), believe me, you wouldn't be asking yourself this question.

i've read a book where there was a study which showed the concentration of lead in surface rocks (and other heavy metals) has increased by 6 fold since 1900. areas in major industrial zones have become wastelands. giant trash patches large as france are floating in the middle of the pacific ocean, you have to know that most plastics contain hazardous materials that slowly leech into the water.
when every indian and chinese person will want to have the same standard as us western folk...then we'll really feel the full extent of our actions.

it's no coincidence that cancer rates are going up http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/canc-a26.shtml

and i'm not arguing for saving the earth for earth sakes...oh no...the earth will be here long after we're gone...but it's for us.
picture if the US forests would be cut down at a rate like the amazon forests, or if acres upon acres of oil palm would be planted instead...say goodbye to hunting. one thing we surely would hate to see, don't we agree?

personally i see the cause of all of our problems in overpopulation and consumerism. i'm pretty sure if we managed to tame these two, we'de see a huge increase in quality of living. but that's just speculation...although a pretty educated one.

[Gene_SC]

Well all the politicians have there own agenda's. To line there pockets. They do not care about global warming, economy or any other issue at hand. It is all about the all might dollar.

I guess I am as guilty as anyone else when it comes to litter. I have literally dozens of full tins of lead pellets all over my back yard.

Will I die of lead poisoning? Probably not before the cigarettes kill me first....

[North Pack]

geiger, - rest easy, not very many folks are in favor of pollution. ... Having said that, these folks pushing this "save the planet" BS, - are using folks (like yourself) to obtain a "political agenda" a VERY left wing agenda. Their ideas would NEVER fly on there own, not even close - so they start a "movement" to push this through. ... BTW geiger, I don't believe in "man made global warming" - however climate change is a given. ... Where I live now, 10,000 years ago was covered by about 100 feet of ice, the last ice age. I just looked around, - all gone, no ice to be seen in any direction. Now THAT'S global warming/climate change, all a perfectly natural cycle. And all this accomplished with NO government programs. No SUV's, no smoke stacks, no consumerism (not a bad thing actually) - nothing the left is constantly railing about. ... Hell, I'd get a real kick out of it, if we discovered that carbon in the atmosphere is the only thing that makes the planet habitable, and without it temps would plummet and we'd end up in having another "ice age". ;) .... Remember, just 30 years ago, it was the coming "ice age" that made the cover of magazines, and was about to do us all in. After that, it was "acid rain" was about to gonna get us and "Western Europe" - guess what? ... Then it was the global spread of Aids, NOoo way to prevent this one for sure, for sure, since everyone "does it" - it was only a matter of time. ... Now, the folks that are constantly bring us "doom 'n gloom" have cooked up another one, and the solution is (guess what?) more government and more taxes - I'm shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked!!!! ;) ....
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My guess is the next worldwide "gotcha" problem will probably involve "tectonic plate shifts." These plate shifts are being caused by folks "owning too much heavy stuff", - like houses, trucks, cars etc. etc. - and we all need to buy electric scooters and live in a 400 sq. ft. house max, smaller would be better. Anything too heavy or large will be taxed by weight or square footage.  Naturally only a massive government program, and new taxes can avoid the next "end of the world". ... ;)

[geiger]

for the most part i do understand you. but you're a bit generalizing at some parts.

for starters i'd just like to say that you're pushing this leftist thing all over the place. we here in europe have a party known as The Green party. as for being a leftist idea...it's mostly in the US, because the leftists are a bit more liberal and thus they incorporated these ideas into their agenda. i've said many times before, that i'm not too fond of this left/right view of the world. and besides...scientific facts don't really take sides. they are just data.

as for SUVs and smoke stacks...they are not the sole contributors of pollution and what they spew out is not just CO2. gas has many carcinogens and other toxic materials you probably don't want to breathe, or eat. our grandparents and earlier generations had in average (i repeat...in average) a chemically healthier environment. yes there was dirty industry but it was much more limited that today. cars were also much more rare. in europe the situation was even worse due to the high density of population. we now have more strict laws for emissions, which have shown to improve the habitat. we didn't do this with taxes but with laws requiring industry to self regulate themselves. sure...it raised the cost of production, but i'd rather not have a coal plant in my back yard.
but i really think consumerism is the root of all evil. we make so much stuff that gets thrown away, alot of the time even new, just because it's not "in" anymore. that's not very efficient if you ask me.

as for the tectonic plate shift...hehe. ;)

[North Pack]

We have a Green Party too, - thankfully not as large, but still quite leftie. Scientific facts are totally dependent on who you read/believe, - there's no firm data on either side that's 100%, or even close to it, and anyone who says there is is totally naive or just plain stupid. In fact most likely to be a member of the Green Party. ... With all their "health living" most our ancestors died a h*ll of a lot younger than we do, - and that's a FACT. Consumerism as you like to call it, - is necessary for modern survival, there is no reasonable alternative. Sitting around contemplating our navel, instead of producing goods, and buying goods produced by others - in other words "commerce" - provides us with a way of making a living. Remove that, and hello to major international conflict - in place of commerce. No country can produce/sell nothing and survive.

[geiger]

sure...scientific data needs an interpreter but some things are just obvious. i'm not talking exactly about global warming, since it stands on shaky ground.
yes they died a lot earlier than us, but that doesn't mean we can't do better. we have the technology, don't see why we shouldn't use it.
consumerism doesn't mean trade...it just means buying alot of unnecessary things and in too large amounts. i've read that the city of Vienna throws away so much bread daily it could feed one of it's average city.
of course there needs to be trade, but we went to far IMO.

i have friends that buy new cell phones every two months...because they are newer and have more fancy stuff. turns out most of them just use the standard features (SMS, phone, and sometimes the net. camera also comes in handy rarely). my phone is 3 years old and it serves me well. i'm afraid we sacrificed quality for quantity.
same goes for cars and other consumerist goods. i even heard car manufacturers engineer car parts so they only last a designated amount of time, for cashing in on service. sure...it brings them money, but it also cost you money.

but i have to agree that this is a very subjective theme. i like to see my surroundings not being littered with trash. i've also heard some US (or was it UK?) company wanted to make one time use cell phones...call and throw it away. where's the logic in that, beats me?