Airgun Quality Control

How many parts of that dura ace are unique to that model? 2? How many in a production run? 100,000? Theoben may sell 500 of a model in a year,likely less.Hand assembled and hand finished. Paintball markers have a lot more tech than airguns,mostly because there is a much bigger market,like bikes,cameras,etc.That's realy what it comes down to,the number of units sold in a year.The more you sell, the more you can invest in automatic tooling to make more parts cheaper.

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What I was saying was that indicidual components seem to be a lot better designed and fitted.  Cables and brake pads and the like are a seperate issue. Still, even on my bikes that get ridden daily year round as commuters they require remarkable little maintinace.  There's so few moving parts in an airgun. I don't have to take apart a shifter and file individual components to make them work.   Paul's bicycle components made low production high dollar (maybe $200 for a derailure) components CNC that were tight, reliable and low volume and had as many moving parts as any airgun.

In an age with CNC machining even small operations have access to really good machining compared to even 25 years ago.  Detriot is not building passable cars.  Do you remember the "mirical mile" when you car flipped the odometer?  That's so common now.  I think nothing of buying a car with 70K on it.  

Airguns remind me of motorcycles in say 1970.  You had the Hondas that were Japanese and were reliable if not great performers (like Gamos or whatever) and then you had Ducati and MV, BMW. ( Expensive if tempermental.  It's not a great analogy becuse I think basic guns, Daisy Gamo et al could and should be better performers out of the box.)  The European bikes were hand fitted, which basically meant the machining off the line was lousy and had to be corrected.  Now all motorcycles pretty much are perfect off the line.  They come tight and stay tight.

In a world where I have 10 CNC shops within 50 miles of me something isn't adding up in my mind about all of this. Maybe it's like detriot in 1991 where everyone has their old sloppy worn out machinery and it's all paid for on the floor of the shop and the lathes or whatever are all loose and flopping around run by old staff worrying more about pensions than quality control.  As long and the old machines will pop out salable guns and nobody else comes into the market with new machines, like Datsun did, everyone just goes on their ciggarette brake and the consumer knows no better.

Hand fitting is an anacronism.

I was a metal fabricator for decades,things have changed a lot.However,even with cnc 3d mills,there are big setup costs,and often a lot of scrapped parts.I think your point about old machinery is part of it,but mostly its a lack of money.I suspect most of the old makers see the writing on the wall,a shrinking,not expanding market.In combination with the global shortsightedness of corporations (this years bootom line) I don't think there's any money available for inovation.(at least in the under $1000 airguns)

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OK, I take your point.  I do agree that a lot of it is bottom line and quarterly profits.  I am not a machinist.  I am a librarian.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Chinese and how that effects the market.  The BAM 50/51 and the QB guns are still really new but there's something there.  I think that as these companies mature were going to see movement as they take market share. Made in Japan used to be an ephitete now it's a mark of quality.  I think the chinese are going the same route.  They are already doing things diffrently in a way that will have to force people to react.  

It's been a sleepy market for a long time.  Triumph and BSA were once the peak of the motorcycle markey, hand fitted in England, just like Theoben et al.  They were expensive, European and top performers. People thought the market was mature or shrinking.  Handa came along first with teh cheap little cubs that worked like a top and didn't leak oil and weren't hand fitted and were alot cheaper.  The CB750 sealed the deal.

Suddenly with a product that "normal" people could own reliably the markey became huge.  There are thousands of gun nuts in America and elsewhere.  Airguns have some real advantages in a world of sprawl, dissapearning paces to shoot and an increasingly regulated market. I think a lot of the future of firearms in genral could rest on airguns if things play out like I think they will.  Just like the good product (honda CB750) and other circumsances like the oil embargo made motorcycles a big deal it could happen with airguns.  

Your right, with present thinking expensive and or sloppy guns the market will shrink.  Make reliable, accurate guns and the whole thing changes. Lot's of guys at my club have bought and sold mid market ($400) guns becuse they didn't shoot well broke or whatever.  Something like a good PCP that's in line with somethng like an Anchutz target rifle would be idea. Something that will tack drive match pellets as well as a target gun will shoot $35 a brick target ammo.  

Also, I think field target has huge potential. If it didn't cost $1500 to try it out it's got just about everything.  Now at a club you have to shoot powder burners at a range.  Pretty boring. FT could be big.

I'm no machinist,either,I've just watched CNC tooling of various types transform metalwork in this country. CNC machines are VERY expensive,so those who own them will make parts very cheap per unit,just to keep the machines working.However,the CAD design work ,programing,testing,redesign,etc,can get very expensive on short run(under 1000) parts. The big co's own thier machines,realy little guys can buy time from specialists,but in the middle,what you pay the CNC shop takes potential profit and gives it to to the cnc shop.I suspect the margins are narrow in airguns.
 I think your streetbike analogy is pretty good,brit sportscars another. Many old time makers went under,many more were borderline during the transition to modern bikes. Some types are nearly extinct,because there isn't the market to support new models(500cc kickstart singles,for instance) Modern sportbikes are very good,but over the top IMO,not realy offering much to the average Joe they couldn't get from a vintage ducati (except lack of oil leaks and reliable electrics) How often can you sanely use 150 hp in a 350 lb streetbike?
  Another point I think is worth thinking about.Springers are mature tech,and have been pushed about as far as is reasonable,or maybe past that. The Porshce flat four is a good analogy. Based distantly on a 45 hp VW engine,it was made to work,at increasing HP output,for 40+ years.Porsche finaly gave up and went to a watercooled 6.The lotus 4 is another example, replaced with an 8 when lotus finally had money (bought by ford(?) I'm hoping the hi end PCP tech will trickle down to low end guns,but I'm not holding my breath.
 The chinese pcps are remarkably good in looks and perfomance,QC still needs work.I think the chinese guns are already haveing an influence,the low end BSA's seem to be a responce to the B-50's.I wonder how much the cheapening trend was to blame for Webly going under?The chinese may very well dominate the market in the next decade,they certainly are a huge presence in the bicycle market.
  I'd love to see airguns become even as mainsteam as sportbikes(still not a big market,relative to PC's,for instance),but with worldwide attempts to outlaw personal firearms(UN driven),I don't think it's going to happen.Historically,firearms get registered,then outlawed,then airguns get restricted,then emasculated,then outlawed.
  You can have a lot of fun with a $500 ft setup,if you dont plan on competeing nationaly. I think the idea that you need to put serious money into a FT gun is hurting the sport a lot. Remember FT is the "fringe of the fringe" a small part of a very small sport,relative to almost any other hobby I can think of.My local bookstore caries 3 different magazines devoted to paintball, and 2 aimed at scale RC model boats,NONE for airgunners...

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I bought a rws 45 in the mid 80's.  had I know I would have to bend the barrel to make it shoot I would have purchased some thing else.  It still works, spring is weak.  I realise they were trying to optimise it for iron sights but they screwed up shooting with a scope doing that.  manufacturers of high power rifles, .22's non that I ever heard of do you have to bend a barrel straight out of the box to make it shoot.   every now and then I get tempted to look at another springer but will probably never do it again.   John