Author Topic: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size  (Read 3959 times)

Offline mze

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CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« on: October 24, 2009, 04:02:39 PM »


I have just completed a lube-tune upgrade on a Gamo CFX which came to me with a broken spring.



I did the usual strip, clean, debur, hone, clean and lightly lubed the receiver with 70% Moly Paste.



The piston seal was undamaged and fitted well. The seals on either side of the rotary breech block were undamaged and in very good shape. I lubed the rotary seal contact area with a specially formulated silicone paste.



The rotary was put in place, the piston was lightly lubed with Moly Paste on all areas which would contact the receiver and was installed.



A gas ram pressurised to 700N was installed, followed by the trigger group upgraded with a GRTIII trigger.



The assembled gun was taken to the shooting range, shot in to bed everything down and the scope sighted in. The chrony was set up and then readings noted with different pellets.



At sea level this particular gas ram had been tested and had produced 890fps using JSB Exact 8.44gr 4.53mm pellets in a break-barrel Gamo Shadow. At 6000 feet altitude I expected the CFX to produce between 750 to 800fps due to air density loss.



Using H&N Field Target 8.49gr 4.50mm pellets I fired a 14 shot string which averaged 790.1fps - in the upper end of the expected muzzle velocity range. Very good!



I then fired a five shot string of JSB Exact 8.44gr 4.53 pellets. This string averaged 695.2fps.



Reverting back to the H&N pellets, the MV was again in the 790 bracket. Why was the MV low with the JSBs?On analysis, I concluded that it was a combination of the gas ram and pellet diameters of 4.50mm and 4.53mm.



Firstly, the gas ram at 700N pressure has an extremely quick lock time.



 With the 4.50mm pellet, the pressured build-up in the compression chamber starts moving the pellet because of its relatively loose fit in the breech, and then gets it on its way quickly.



With the 4.53mm pellet, the barrel is effectively blocked while the pressure builds up in the compression chamber. The rear o-ring seal on the rotary poses less resistance than the pellet in the breech, so the pressure leaks past the 0-ring until the pellet gets on its way down the barrel. The small amount of pressure lost this way is enough to drop the MV by ±90fps when compared to the results achieved with the 4.50mm pellets. These effects are due to the design of the rotary breech block in the Gamo CFX.



The next day at the shooting range I conducted 3 tests using a break-barrel Hatsan Model 70 (Daisy/Winchester 1000).



Using the same pellets as on the day before and with 3 different gas rams, the same muzzle velocities (within a couple of fps) were achieved with the 4.50mm and 4.53mm pellets. The Hatsan has only the breech seal while the CFX has a breech block/barrel seal and a breech block/receiver o-ring seal: one seal versus 2 seals.



What do the acknowledged experts on the forum think of the forgoing?



Weihrauch HW90 Gas Ram
MZE Gamo CFX Royale GRTIII Gas Ram + NS 4-12x50
MZE Gamo CFX VT-1 Gas Ram
MZE B19 Gas Ram Carbine + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 80TG Gas Ram + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 70TG Developer
MZE Hatsan 100X Developer

Relum Tornado with genuine steel sights

Offline kiwi

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RE: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 05:55:19 PM »
Hi..my krals leaked "CFX COPY"...
so I done a few mods...
It took 2 goes but I got it....
Went to a thicker section O-ring
& replaced the small O-ring with
a rubber tube type seal...

pete
Kiwi

Spring guide sets...  http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?
http://www.nzairgunners.com

If guns are outlawed ONLY outlaws will have guns

A tin of Gamo pellets is like a box of chocs U never know what yer going to get.....



Offline mze

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Re: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »


Pete,



That is exactly what I had in mind. I have already replaced the rotary in my own CFX because mine was damaged when I received it as a new gun. Someone in the shop must have fired it with the rotary partially open, imprinting the barrel end eccentrically over the barrel seal.



So, taking the damaged rotary and machining away material to insert a seal like yours will both remove the barrel imprint and allow a full leak-proof seal against the barrel.  The thicker o-ring is needed to provide a more robust closer fit to the receiver. A good silicone lube where the o-ring seats will still allow the rotary to move easily.



  Good redesign.



  Vincent

Weihrauch HW90 Gas Ram
MZE Gamo CFX Royale GRTIII Gas Ram + NS 4-12x50
MZE Gamo CFX VT-1 Gas Ram
MZE B19 Gas Ram Carbine + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 80TG Gas Ram + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 70TG Developer
MZE Hatsan 100X Developer

Relum Tornado with genuine steel sights

Offline daved

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One other suggestion...
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 03:42:22 AM »
When you tear it down again, make a sanding mandrel to polish just the area where the rotary oring rides.  I had sealing issues in a CFX I had several years ago, and in the process of installing a gas ram, I made a mandrel that would let me polish just the end of the tube where the rotary rides.  Mine used wet/dry sandpaper, for the comp tube I went to 400 grit, but on the rotary end I went all the way to 1500.  Would have gone finer, but that was all I could get my hands on locally.  My theory was that it would seal better and the oring would wear slower.  Don't know if that was true, but that CFX is still going strong.  Later.

Dave

Offline mze

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Re: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 05:05:30 PM »


Pete,



 I notice that the hole in the centre of the small seal appears larger in diameter than 4.5mm.



 There are circumstances in springer behaviour where pellets have been sucked back towards the receiver, hence the port at the barrel is smaller than the pellet.



 See "The Airgun From Trigger to Muzzle_s.pdf" available as a download. Have you not experienced the odd incidence of inexplicable flyers?



  Vincent

Weihrauch HW90 Gas Ram
MZE Gamo CFX Royale GRTIII Gas Ram + NS 4-12x50
MZE Gamo CFX VT-1 Gas Ram
MZE B19 Gas Ram Carbine + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 80TG Gas Ram + Red Fox 4-16x50AO
MZE Hatsan Mod 70TG Developer
MZE Hatsan 100X Developer

Relum Tornado with genuine steel sights

Offline kiwi

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Re: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 05:32:26 PM »
its 6mm...but there is a length of 6mm od stainless
steel tube in there now...didn't have any when
I took the pic.. The hole is steped 10mm to 6mm
The 10mm hole is 8mm deep then theres a 6mm
hole that is 4mm deep that the tube is lock tighted
into aswell as the seal being glued with loctite 404.

PS..be carefull.... Of the casting holes my 10mm
hole just broke though one...but the seal & 404 sorted that..

Pete
Kiwi

Spring guide sets...  http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?
http://www.nzairgunners.com

If guns are outlawed ONLY outlaws will have guns

A tin of Gamo pellets is like a box of chocs U never know what yer going to get.....



Offline striker_12b

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Re: CFX MV Variation - Pellet Size
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 03:38:49 AM »
Kiwi
    can i know the thicker section O-ring size & spec?