Author Topic: Light Weight Wood/Synthetic Gun  (Read 11642 times)

Offline KK0605

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Light Weight Wood/Synthetic Gun
« on: October 25, 2009, 01:42:53 PM »
Seems to me that of the .22 springers under $300.00, the best ones are wood. I love the look of a wood gun, but for hunting you need a light, durable gun that can be banged around and still preform as good as ever. So, I know that most of Gamo's line are synthetic (I personally am not crazy about Gamo, but I am open), but other companies seem to like wood better. Now, if the gun is light (under #7) than I'll take wood also. Today I hefted Cabelas' Deluxe springer, (all 10# of it) and realized "This won't be fun lugging around all day

So, to help me out, could you list either a light, durable wood springer, or the best synthetic one around the price range of $300? .22 cal. of course.

This gun has to have the power to hunt small game humanly and accurately while still being light and durable.

Thank You!
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
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Offline onemountain

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Springer
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 02:59:42 PM »


Well, I know you said you don't particularly like Gamos, but if you want light it's worth considering one because you could get it completely de-Gamo-ified, er, tuned (some of the internals replaced and a new trigger) and stick in the price range. The Whisper's pretty darned light at 5.28 lbs, and the CFX is pretty decent at 6.6 lbs.



You could also get something a Diana 34 Panther, it's a bit heavier, 7.75 pounds, but very nice. And once again you could get it tuned and stay in your price range. You could also save even more money and get a Ruger Blackhawk (tuned of course), as I think that's the current 34P clone. A Diana Panther 350 is heavier yet, 8.2 lbs, but also a nice platform.



I think Beeman has an AR1000 based synthetic stocked rifle or two; the GH1050 comes to mind. (The TF89 uses the AR1000 powerplant). Of course, I can almost guarantee that they're overpriced.



I guess this depends partly on at what point you consider a gun too heavy.. Why not browse Pyramyd Air's website for and check the weights of the guns that catch your eye?



Oh, and btw, you might want to edit your post or turn emoticons off so it says " (like under #8) " instead of a sunglasses smiley. Took me a moment to figure out what you were trying to say there lol. (Not trying to be nit-picky).

Yea, though I walk through the garden in the shadows of pests,
I will fear no squirrel: For thou art with me;
thy scope and thy trigger, they comfort me.

()()                          
(O.o)      
o( ()()  ~In memory of Alu~

????? ?aß?!

Offline KK0605

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Springer
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 03:20:04 PM »
Well, as you know, I love the TF89. But I do want a hard hitting light gun. The Panther does not seem to have the power I want. (A broken in, tuned one on American Airgunner got a highest of 700fps) As far as Gamo goes, de-Gamo-tized, what model would you reccomend?Then,  GRTIII first, Gene tune second, then what?

If I didn't make this clear I would like the most powerfull (if fps in the right grain (none of this 4.5g crap) means power to you) while still accurate springer (preferably synthetic) around $400.

I have felt a #10 gun, and that is HEAVY! So, 5-6 (if that is even possible) would be best, but 7-8 is more realistic.

And onemountain, you seem to have all the answers.... LOL Thanks as always! And that emoticon is odd at first glance!

EDIT: I think mid-800 on up for fps would be the kind of power I would want for hunting.
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
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http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

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Offline onemountain

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Springer
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 05:17:36 PM »


First off, credit where credit's due: I don't have all the answers. A lot, if not most, of what I say is stuff I've learned at GTA, not firsthand. The people at GTA collectively have the answers. I've just read through the forums a LOT and try to answer a question from what I remember. You should give your thanks to the GTA family, as should I. So basically I just try to give a condensed version of what I've learned from others, but then inevitably screw it up and write some horribly verbose essay of a post (see below for an example lol):



A quick note on the tuned 34's: when you see one that's shooting around 700 fps in .22 that generally means it's been tuned using Maccari parts, which drop the power significantly in the '34. A 34 tuned with stock parts (which is still a pretty darn nice gun!) will be doing upper 700's, generally around 17-18 fpe. Maccari parts drop it to around 15 fpe.



Well, mid 850ish+ fps in .22 with a mid weight pellet really narrow the field down. That kind of power means the supermagnum springers, and you're going to be hard pressed to find a light one simply by virtue of the large powerplant. Not to mention a light supermagnum is going to mean even worse recoil issues than usual. So I think we're pretty much talking 8 lbs bare minimum.
 



The supermagnum springers that I can think of right now are the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak, the Theoben Elminator/Beeman Crow Magnum, Walther Falcon Hunter/Talon Magnum, Diana 350 family and clones, Gamo 1250 Hurricane, derivatives, and clones, and possibly the Beeman RX series/HW90.



Right off the bat your price constraints eliminate the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak, Theoben Elminator/Beeman Crow Magnum, and the Beeman RX series/HW90; even if you could find one of those used it would still probably be too pricey.



The Gamo 1250/Hunter Extreme/etc are too pricey new. But you might be able to find a used one in your price range. The Benjamin Super Streak is apparently (?) a clone or semi-clone of the 1250 powerplant, and does fall in your price range (off the top of my head about $250-260 at Airguns of Arizona, much more at Pyramyd). The plus of the 1250 family and Benji SS is that they're very powerful, can get nearly 30 fpe in some cases. The downside is that the Benjamin Super Streak is gaining somewhat of an unfavorable reputation for quality control and longevity, but you might be hard pressed to find someone to tune them. And from what I hear parts support for them is poor to nonexistent. But Ed (aka shadow) has an old Brit-made 1250 that he loves. The Gamo Hunter Extreme is listed at 9 lbs, while the Benjamin Super Streak is listed at 8.5 lbs.
 



The Walthers are also very powerful (26-27 fpe in .22 if I recall correctly), but have had some quality control issues with the internals and the stocks breaking. Gene won't tune them anymore. But some seem better than others, and if you're willing to do a home tune it sounds like they can be made into serviceable guns. The price is ok on them though, especially a used one. The Falcon Hunter is listed at 8.25 lbs as is the Talon Magnum.
 



The Diana 350 family and clone (B28A) are probably the most popular of the 3 sets of guns in your price range. They're not quite as powerful as the Walthers and the Gamo 1250/Extreme/Benji SS, generally coming out around 24 fpe. But that power level does meet your velocity requirement (24 fpe will push a 14.3 gr CP at 870 fps). Of the three sets of guns they're probably also the ones least in need of a tune out of the box, but people do say the difference is still dramatic. The Diana 350 magnum is listed at 8.5 lbs, the 350 Panther at 8.2 lbs, and the 350 Feuerkraft at 8.0 lbs. My B28A weighs in at 8.5 lbs. The parts support for the 350 family is going to be the best and with it the best and widest availability of tuning.



Of course, all the above are going to be fairly hard to shoot because of the recoil, with the Walthers and Gamo 1250s worse than the 350 family due to the increased power. They're all fairly long guns too, and as noted, none of them are terribly light.



Okay, I feel dirty for saying this, but here it is: there is a way to get a gun that weighs 5-6 lbs and has decent power in .22. Well, you have to be willing to take a slight power drop to around 22 fpe (not exactly a weakling number though!), but you also get way less recoil. It's the Benjamin Discovery. Yep, a PCP. The Dark Side. Frankly, if weight's your first concern, then it blows the springers out of the water. And it should be easier to get good groups with too. Just throwing it out there.



I will note with some dismay that only one of the rifle I mentioned above has a synthetic stock, the Diana 350 Panther. You were right, the good guns tend to be wood. But if you want to you could take the route some people have, and spray the stock down with truck bedliner to give it some protection from weather and minor dings and marks, and also generally a better grip.



Personally, I'd go with something in the 350 family. Also personally, I see two ideal routes within that option:



1) get a B28A and send it off for a full tune, and maybe chop the barrel back and slap on a brake for cocking leverage. An all out tune with Maccari parts would result in a very nice shooting gun, but probably at the cost of a little power, maybe 2 fpe (would result in a CP with a muzzle speed of around 830 fps). Yeah, I know, the power loss doesn't seem very palatable, but I've never heard of anyone who wants to put the stock spring back in the gun following a tune.



2) Get a Diana 350 Feuerkraft Pro Compact and home tune it, keeping the stock internals. This should result in a pretty nice shooting gun, not quite so nice as one with the spring etc replaced, but one keeping full power. It has the added advantage of being shorter, reducing the lock time and helping the balance in spite of the weight (8.5 lbs).



The above is all just my opinions though, and you know what they say about those And I'm probably biased toward the 350 family because I have a B28.



By the, feel to call me Eric

Yea, though I walk through the garden in the shadows of pests,
I will fear no squirrel: For thou art with me;
thy scope and thy trigger, they comfort me.

()()                          
(O.o)      
o( ()()  ~In memory of Alu~

????? ?aß?!

Offline onemountain

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deleted nt
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 05:45:21 PM »


nt

Yea, though I walk through the garden in the shadows of pests,
I will fear no squirrel: For thou art with me;
thy scope and thy trigger, they comfort me.

()()                          
(O.o)      
o( ()()  ~In memory of Alu~

????? ?aß?!

Offline KK0605

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So Disco or a 350/clone
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 03:31:44 AM »
Well, the darkside has attracted me, but I'm not quite sure.
1st. The Disco is in the price range. But I have read that it is LOUD. Eric, you have one don't you? What does it compare to sound wise?
2. There are Disco clones now. That (plus a Benji Pump) might be an option.
3. Is the only difference between the Feuerkraft and the magnum size? Or is there a power difference also?
4. You said the CFX was only 6 #. Sounded good, it got an average of 803 fps in Dave's review. But the pellets were size 4.5, and got an fpe of 12.
5. For now, I won't get this gun tuned, (unless the gun is cheap enough to be tuned also under $300
6. The TF89 is around 8 pounds anyway, so that still might be my best bet.
7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires? Gene said that the Walther Talon packed a mean punch. Like a shotgun punch? I don't know.
8. Changed first post to Under $300
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
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http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

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Offline onemountain

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RE: So Disco or a 350/clone
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2009, 06:59:50 AM »


Quote
KK0605 - 10/26/2009  9:31 AM  Well, the darkside has attracted me, but I'm not quite sure. 1st. The Disco is in the price range. But I have read that it is LOUD. Eric, you have one don't you? What does it compare to sound wise?  2. There are Disco clones now. That (plus a Benji Pump) might be an option.  3. Is the only difference between the Feuerkraft and the magnum size? Or is there a power difference also? 4. You said the CFX was only 6 #. Sounded good, it got an average of 803 fps in Dave's review. But the pellets were size 4.5, and got an fpe of 12. 5. For now, I won't get this gun tuned, (unless the gun is cheap enough to be tuned also under $300 6. The TF89 is around 8 pounds anyway, so that still might be my best bet.  7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires? Gene said that the Walther Talon packed a mean punch. Like a shotgun punch? I don't know. 8. Changed first post to Under $300



1) Sorry, I don't have a Disco; the Dark Side hasn't claimed me yet. Unless there's a deal I'm unaware of (quite possible with my very limited knowledge of PCPs) I'm not sure that the Disco fits in your new $300 range, at least not if you plan on getting a pump. But if you have another air source, then it might be worth it. And speaking of Disco's, AoA has one in their used section right now for $195 in EX condition. But please don't go on what I have to say about the Disco or any other PCP, I'm probably not a reliable source of PCP information.



2) I didn't know there's a Disco clone out, which rifle is it? I don't know my PCP clones worth a darn. I have also heard that the Disco is pretty loud, but all I can offer to that end is hearsay.
 



3)The 350 Magnum, 350 Feuerkraft, 350 Feuerkraft Pro, and 350 Panther all have the same powerplant. Here's a rundown on them, using AoA's numbers:



350 Magnum: the original 350. Fuller figured stock with Monte Carlo comb with raised cheekrest, but not symmetrical, so it favors right-handed people. Stock is checkered along grip and forend, and has "350 Magnum" pressed into top of checkering on right side of forend. Has regular iron sights, rear notch + post globe in front. Weighs 8.5 lbs. Is 48" long w/ 19.5" inch barrel. The B28 is a clone of this model.



350 Feuerkraft: Slimmer stock that extends a little further, concealing cocking arm. No checkering. Has straight comb with no cheekrest and is ambidextrous. Has fiberoptic sights, rear notch and from post/bead. All the ones I've seen pics of have the front sight exposed, not a good idea with a fragile fiberoptic sight. The 34 Panther had the same problem initially and Diana corrected, so they may have since corrected the Feuerkraft too. The feuerkraft weighs 8.0 lbs, and Diana somehow found a way to make it even longer the 350 Mag at 48.375" with a 19.625" barrel.



 The Feuerkraft Pro Compact is a Feuerkraft with a shorter barrel and muzzlebrake on it with no sights. Weighs 8.5 lbs (because of the brake) and is 44.625" long with a 15.75" barrel. From what I hear they balance pretty nicely despite having that brake out on the end of the barrel.



350 Panther: synthetic stock with textured panels where the checkering is on the 350 Magnum. Has a monte carlo comb with an abidextrous cheekrest. Has fiberoptic sights, but the front does have a globe. Weighs 8.2 lbs with a 19.25" barrel and is 48" long.



Unfortunately with your $300 cap only the Feuerkraft is within reach (if you're buying new), I've occasionally seen it on sale for about $300. You could get them used for less of course. This may be just as well, since Dianas have gotten somewhat of a reputation for randomly coming from the factory pretty dry; there's a fair chance you'd need to get it tuned or at least open it up yourself and give it a lube tune. But that may have improved somewhat, haven't heard too many complaints to that effect lately.



4) Yep, the CFX is pretty darned light. And yep, it's pretty darned out of your power range. It was just an exampled of a light Gamo gun with a synthetic stock. BTW, a rule of thumb for estimating .22 power from a .177 stat is to add 20%; so a 12 fpe CFX in .177 would, in theory, be somewhere around 14.4 fpe in .22.



5) With the $300 cap you're probably only going to be able to get a clone tuned. Worth looking into though. My B28 is off for a tune right now.



6) The TF89 doesn't quite have the power you asked for, but as I said in the thread you started awhile back it's not like it's lacking in power. I don't know that 850+ fps is really all that necessary in .22 with a mid-weight pellet if people are hunting with B26's that are hard pressed to make 700 fps. If you're willing to back down on the power to around 17 or 18 fpe I'd look into a Ruger Blackawk, it's a 34 clone with a synthetic stock, sounds like they're turning out pretty nice. Or you could get an actualy Diana 34 Panther and get it lube tuned with the stock internals to keep the power up (and not drop like the rifle you mentioned earlier).



7) I'm the wrong person to ask about recoil comparisons. I'm not really a rimfire person, and I've never shot a Talon Magnum. I can say that it's worth bearing in mind that a tune will help with recoil.



I guess if you want power, look into a TF89 or B28 and getting them tuned to some degree. If you want the synthetic stock I recommend a Diana 34 or its clone. And I don't really know enough about the Disco to be for or against it, I was just throwing it out there since it matches some of your criteria.



I'm sorry if this post isn't quite as informative as lucid as you'd like; I'm operating on about 2 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours.

Yea, though I walk through the garden in the shadows of pests,
I will fear no squirrel: For thou art with me;
thy scope and thy trigger, they comfort me.

()()                          
(O.o)      
o( ()()  ~In memory of Alu~

????? ?aß?!

Offline jwh2

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RE: So Disco or a 350/clone
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 07:37:58 AM »
Quote
KK0605 - 10/26/2009  9:31 AM

7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires?

I have never shot an airgun that recoiled enough to matter. My 350 has some recoil but certainly not like any powder burners. I have heard some people compare the 350 to a 30-30 on another forum. Poppycock. BTW I shoot both powder burners and air rifles every week.
James
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Beeman HW 97 (.20) Hawke 4-12x40
Beeman R9 (.177) Hawke 4-12x40
HW50S-AW-Nickel (.22) Hawke 3-9X40
Beeman R7 (.20) Hawke 2-7X32
Beeman P1 (.177)

Offline KK0605

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 08:18:54 AM »
Eric: From what I have read (I don't remember where), Tech Force makes a clone of the Disco. It is cheaper, but doesn't have a pump. PCPs just haven't appealed to me as much yet. What, with either pumping every 30 shots, or buying a tank, it just makes springers look better (IMO). For power, a TF89 has plenty for me. For squirrels and such, that is a good gun. Was just hoping to find a lighter, more durable gun. Also, truck bed liner? Will that make it water proof? Cause, that it a good idea. I read that on here somewhere... I'll have to look it up.
BTW, you have been VERY informative. Thank you.

James: A 30-30? From a 350? You are right, that just doesn't sound right. I would think that a .22 air gun would recoil same or less than a .22 rimfire. Thanks for that info.
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
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http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

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Offline onemountain

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 08:23:43 AM »
I'm pretty sure he was saying that the claims comparing the 350 to a .30-30 are not credible.
Yea, though I walk through the garden in the shadows of pests,
I will fear no squirrel: For thou art with me;
thy scope and thy trigger, they comfort me.

()()                          
(O.o)      
o( ()()  ~In memory of Alu~

????? ?aß?!

Offline KK0605

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 08:24:47 AM »
Oops. I knew he said that, but I worded it wrong in my post. Thanks.
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
My one and only air gun: TF89 .22!
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

Hunts:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23067&mid=183338#M183338

Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply have their bright ideas closer together.
—Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Offline KK0605

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RE: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 08:28:55 AM »
What about this.... I get a TF89 with a damaged stock, (like richard/thebookdoc) and get a synthetic stock for it? That would make it quite a bit lighter wouldn't it? I'd just have to find someone to make me one....
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
My one and only air gun: TF89 .22!
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

Hunts:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23067&mid=183338#M183338

Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply have their bright ideas closer together.
—Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Offline mackeralboy

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Re: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 09:05:04 AM »
KK0605
Using your original critera, I'll give you my two cents based on the guns I have and the ones I have shot.

 If you like wood, light weight, low cost and a .22cal, the Crosman Quest 800 is hard to beat. The price on them has been very steady at $115.00 for a few years now.  It has a wood stock that I think is one of the most ergonomic that I have come across and is light weight. I have a leapers 3-9x40 scope on mine and it weighs in at maybe 7lbs. In addition to myself I have two friends that have bought the Quest 800 and none of us have had any issues with our guns. They all seem to shoot accurately right out of the box. The only down side that I could see for you with a Quest is that it is a chinese clone of a Gamo 440. If you can get past the Gamo part, then here are some more advantages to the Quest 800. As I said you are only out $115.00 as your initial investment. That includes a fixed X4 power scope. For another $30.00 bucks you buy yourself one of Charlies GRTIII triggers and install it. Installing a GRTIII  alone will bring a noticable increase in your accuracy. After that if you get it tuned or tune it yourself, you will still have spent less than your original ceiling on $300.00. After tuning mine myself, it shoots 14.5gr RWS superdomes at about 700 fps for 15.4 fpe. It will shoot a 1" group at 50 yards. I have taken crows, rabbits, skunks and raccoons with mine.

With regards to getting a springer that will shoot 800+ fps that is also lightweight I think you are out of luck.  I have two Gamo 1250's and a Walther Falcon Hunter and let me tell you they are all beasty guns to lug around in the field. My feeling is that if you want light weight and over 800fps then you are going to have to go to the dark side and more than likely a Disco or clone of a Disco to stay in your price range of under $300.00.

Hope this helps
Mc
Air Arms Prosport .22 cal
Beeman SS1000H .22 cal
Beeman P1 .20 cal
Benjamin Discovery .22 cal
BSA Lightning Tactical XL .22 cal
Crosman 1377 converted to .22 cal by Tim McMurry
Crosman Quest 800X .22 cal
Crosman Nitro .22 cal
Gamo 1250 .177 cal
Gamo 1250 .22 cal
Gamo Whisper .177 cal
Theoben Eliminator .25 cal
Walther Falcon Hunter .22 cal

Offline KK0605

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Re: Light Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2009, 09:11:14 AM »
Thanks Mike. I was looking at the Gamo 1250 Hurricane. Is it the same as the hunter extreme? or are they different? pyramyd air has the 1250 labeled as discontinued.
Kyler
*~K~*~K~*
My one and only air gun: TF89 .22!
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23042&posts=11#M183344

Hunts:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23067&mid=183338#M183338

Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply have their bright ideas closer together.
—Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

Offline mackeralboy

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Re: Light Weight Wood/Synthetic Gun
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2009, 10:07:17 AM »
The Extreme is the same gun as the 1250 except with a different barrel. An advantage that the 1250 / Extreme has over Walther Falcon Hunter is that it is easier to tune and it will take GRTIII trigger if you so choose. The trigger on the Falcon Hunter is a nightmare. Just ask Gene.
Air Arms Prosport .22 cal
Beeman SS1000H .22 cal
Beeman P1 .20 cal
Benjamin Discovery .22 cal
BSA Lightning Tactical XL .22 cal
Crosman 1377 converted to .22 cal by Tim McMurry
Crosman Quest 800X .22 cal
Crosman Nitro .22 cal
Gamo 1250 .177 cal
Gamo 1250 .22 cal
Gamo Whisper .177 cal
Theoben Eliminator .25 cal
Walther Falcon Hunter .22 cal