Author Topic: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?  (Read 2704 times)

Offline TCups

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Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« on: December 15, 2009, 04:06:11 AM »
"Uh, oh - raw data in New Zealand tells a different story than the "official" one."

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/25/uh-oh-raw-data-in-new-zealand-tells-a-different-story-than-the-official-one/

Or this?

"Climategate:  "Men behaving badly" - a short summary for laymen"

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/25/climategate-men-bahaving-badly-a-short-summary-for-laymen/

Or this"

BASIC GLOBAL WARMING EQUATIONS "TOTALLY WRONG"

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=8044

Keep an open mind.

Offline Curioguy

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 04:42:57 AM »
True, but why let all those silly facts get in the way of the devoted liberal agenda.  After all we must recognize it is has become their religion.  And shame on those of us who attempt to diminish another man’s sacred beliefs?  Have we no compassion for the wayward followers of the Algoreian doctrine?

Offline TCups

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 05:24:23 AM »
I make no judgement about kiwi nor do I question his right to a strongly held opinion -- he seem like a nice enough fellow.  The burr in my bonnet is over shoddy science and political agendas cloaked in "scientific consensus", particularly when the ultimate goal is to have the UN re-distribute American wealth.

Offline Magnum

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 05:55:52 AM »
Geez Tommy, I had suspected as much! using a blip in time(119year) bar chart, instead of the 1+million year chart?. ice /heat.  I think Chicken Little may have a big green ball and its printing money as it rolls:)

Offline Curioguy

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 01:54:16 PM »
Quote
TCups - 12/15/2009  12:24 PM

I make no judgement about kiwi nor do I question his right to a strongly held opinion -- he seem like a nice enough fellow.  The burr in my bonnet is over shoddy science and political agendas cloaked in "scientific consensus", particularly when the ultimate goal is to have the UN re-distribute American wealth.


I will not judge kiwi either.  I don’t now the man and I have no beef with him.  Nor do I think you questioned his right to an opinion.  It was my attempt to lampoon those who will accept the man made global warming (climate change) assumption without reviewing ALL the available facts.  Therefore, it becomes their religion.  And that’s just my opinion.  
But pay no mind, I now see that I’m late to this whole C02  discussion.

Offline shearload

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 05:12:26 PM »
You guys are too generous; having proven that all these data have been faked, you still allow others to hold opinions that differ from yours.

So, what exactly is your opinion?  If you believe the temperature data are no good, then does that mean that you believe that the temperature isn't rising?  None of the data you say are faked support any argument other than global temperature has risen since the '70s.  So if the data are faked, then the temperature really hasn't risen.  All this melting ice around the world is some kind of short-term anomaly.  Maybe caused by a simple change in ice's melting point?  Or, maybe the ice melting is a result of all our negative thoughts; since too many people believe in global warming, the Gods are melting the ice to teach us a lesson.

Now, Al Gore has proposed that the polar ice cap may be gone in summertime within the next five to seven years.  But, from what I read, the scientist he was citing said he never wrote that down, but only, maybe, said it in social conversation.  There goes Al, making up stuff.  Since we can't trust Al Gore, then the ice isn't really melting, is it?  Those satellite pictures are probably faked, too.  And the Navy's studies of ice volume over the pole.  That's likely fake, too.  The glaciers disappearing in both hemispheres is a ploy by third-world countries to extort money from us.

But now that you guys have figured out that all these temperature data from around the world have been misread or faked, we can go to bed tonight knowing that the global temperature isn't really rising.  And all those glaciers and ice caps will return to normal.  Maybe within five to seven years.

Offline TCups

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 10:23:20 PM »
The data isn't faked.  The data is 1) incomplete, and 2) used to power mathematical models that make predictions about what the weather, ie, global temperature, may do.  I believe the hottest year on record in modern times is something like 1932.  And yes, the 1990's were hotter than average (in the modern era), but the trend for the last decade has been cooler than average.  And glaciation, followed by melting of glaciers is, historically, very common.  And yes, some glaciers are receding, melting, and falling off into the ocean -- others are growing (those don't get much press).  And, for example, the ice on Mt. Kilimanjaro is "melting", but it is because, I have read, that temperatures and humidity in the costal regions are decreasing and there is less snow than there was in years of warmer, more humid weather.  And, I have read, that tree ring data that was used to infer temperature in years past was 1) taken selectively from only a very few large trees that seemed to "fit" what the researchers wanted to find, and 2) isn't a reliable way to correlate with temperature data in the modern era, for years when, historically, the temperature is known.  And finally, an increase in average temperature increases the atmospheric CO2 levels by two well known mechanisms -- decomposition of biomass, and dissolution of CO2 from cold ocean water.

Fake data?  Maybe, in some instances.  Fake is like using Photoshop to melt the polar ice caps and add hurricanes to the equatorial regions of the Earth and cover most of Florida and all of Cuba under water, as on the cover of Algore's book.  Fraudulent is like listing thousands of scientists names who "support" the UN's conclusions on man-made global warming, many of whom submitted data and opinions that did not support the politicians conclusions, and some of whom literally had to sue the UN to have their names removed from the list of the "vast majority" of scientists who supported the conclusion.  The list, by the way, included every scientist who contributed any data, all the research assistants, clericals, and quite a few bureaucrats who were lumped in to the "scientist" category, and all were listed as contributing to and therefor "supporting" the final conclusion drawn by the UN committee on climate change or what ever it is called, irrespective of their individual positions.  Manipulated, misrepresented, and misinterpreted data is all too common, though, as any one with half a scientific brain knows.  And anyone who claims to be a scientist and who says "it is known for a fact, there can be no debate . . ." is, like Algore, an idiot.

What I am saying is that the data is 1) incomplete, and as far as known accuracy, available only for a relatively short period.  Even that data in many cases is questionable, because of the way it was gathered.  2) the mathematical modeling used to manipulate the data that are available and make predictions are demonstrably inaccurate.  3)  Government funding has been hugely skewed to support researchers and research projects with a political agenda -- AGW.  And the political fall out of AGW and "green" economy is primarily the "green" that Algore and companies like GE and other politically correct businesses stand to make -- at your expense and mine.

No one, I think, disputes the process of climate change.  Any idiot with even a rudimentary understanding of geology knows that there have been huge changes in the Earth's climate, some of it occurring in very short (geologically speaking) periods of time.  But man-made global warming, AGW, is only an hypothesis -- a scientifically unproven theory, and a theory supported by poor science and a political agenda as best I can determine.  Character assassinations of those with dissenting opinions is a common tactic by the radical left environmentalist.  God knows, what motive would I have for wanting to see the Earth destroyed?  None.  But it is my considered opinion, based on the history I know, that it is politicians and power-seekers who pose a far greater threat to mankind than the weather for the next 100 years.  And I am pretty darned sure of that.

Just for fun, read Michael Creighton's "State of Fear" sometime, including the forward and epilog.

Later.

Offline Curioguy

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RE: Hey Kiwi - have you seen this?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 11:22:04 PM »
Here is an interesting article I just came across and from the UK none the less.  Now I’m not saying these are unquestionable so I would love to see the likes of Al Gore debate them (I’M NOT HOLDING MY BREATH):

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138