Help! Spring compressor failing, gun under pressure!

[kcurrie]

I posted this on the china gate but thought a new posting would get more attention, so I'll repost here:

So I made a spring guide (more on that later) and did a  pretty good cleaning and lube job on the 36-2 but now after reassembling  it it cocks ok but will not fire. I had quite an episode trying to  get the piston back in there which required some minor trigger  disassemble (basically taking the trigger itself out and holding  the small spring in there up so I could slide the piston back in without  catching on the whateveryoucallit. Anyway, now the gun is cocked and  won't fire-- it appears the safety works, i.e. it still blocks the  trigger pull and I can pull the trigger completely and the gun won't  fire. Like a fool I started to take it apart while cocked then thought  better of it as the spring is under extremely high pressure...  I started to crank the spring back in it appeared that it didn't want  to go any further in-- it's in far enough that I could stick a small  screwdriver through the hole where the spring retaining pin goes... just  after that the board my sping compressor is on cracked-- I guess  because I was cranking it in and it simply wasn't going in any  further... so now I sit, my gun cocked, spring under pressure with a  failing spring compressor. It's in the garage below me, I left it for  the night but surely have to deal with it tomorrow... any  suggestions? I don't know if I should hope that it pops over night  or not... I'm more than a little scared to go deal with it but I can't  leave it there forever...

Other than building some further type of armor or whatever around it I don't know what else I can do to prepare to take it down...  

[gamo2hammerli]

I'm reading this but I can't help you.....hope a tinkerer or tuner can chime in later.  That's a scary situation you've got there.....with the air rifle cocked and spring compressed.  Even when you get everything sorted out....by then the spring could've been compressed for over a day or two and it might lose some of it's power.  Good luck to you......be very careful examining it!!!!

[ezman604]

Can you post some photos of the compressor setup? You have two possible choices, I believe. A dry fire or an attempted decocking. IF it can be done safely, the latter would be the best to try. If possible,post a picture focusing on the trigger group area also. It's definately a dicey situation so be very careful. Noonewants to be the one to give you advice and see you get hurt in the process. That's understandable. BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!!

Dave

[joeblow]

wow! that sucks. you said it wont fire right. going to have to release the sear with something. maybe a pick or something is the barrel still on? pressed against wood or something? if so throw a heavy blanket over it and release the sear. somethings gotta be done right?

[tjk]

PM sent, tjk

[shadow]

Posted a reply in the China Gate for you.:) Ed

[kcurrie]

Here's my mess:

 

   

 

 

To those mentioning decocking-- that was an option before I tried taking the endcap off and now the spring is held in only by the failing spring compressor and two small screwdrivers... argh.
 

[airiscool]

If it were me...


First, to stabilize.

Place a 2x4 or something stronger  across the front  of the reciever/barrel breach area at 90 degrees to the reciever. Don't use any partical, or waffer board !!!

Put clamps on either end of that 2x4 down to the end of the cracked piece of the compresser's back  board and pull the end of the back board back up close to where it should be. That should use the ridgidity of the reciever to keep the back board close to straight and stable so that you can untie the red strap from the compresser to the work stand.

Move the compressor  back along the work stand so that the crack in the base board's end is onto the work stand and the end of the base board is flush with the end of the work stand. Then  re-clamp the compressor base board to the workstand top. The stand top should then strengthen the compresser back board enough to let you take the spring back out.

Then compleatly coat with glue a piece of 3/4 inch plywood  onto the back side of the compresser and clamp over night.

The fault is in using  partical  board  for anything that has a bending stress on it. Partical  boards are  just designed to use up waste wood and make a sheet that will stay flat. They do not have the strength to  resiste high bending loads like plywood can.

Paul.

[ezman604]

Decocking is still the best option, if the barrel and cocking lever can travel back far enough without hitting your straps. I see the mess you have with the failing compressor. There's better ways to contain the receiver and barrel assembly but you can deal with that AFTER you get out of this predicament.

I sent you a PM with suggestions. If you can, try to shoot a photo of the front of the trigger group where the sear contacts the piston. And CAREFULLY see if you can break the barrel and how far in the cocking cycle it will go before hitting your straps. If it can be pulled back far enough to put pressure on the piston and spring, you can use a jewlers screwdriver or similar tool to lift the sear to release the piston and spring. THIS WILL PUT THE FULL load of the spring on the barrel you are holding, so BE PREPARED!!!!! If you do not control the barrel and have the entire setup locked down securely, it will most definately slam down and bend the barrel. Or worse, cause you bodily injury. BE CAREFUL!!!!!

If the barrel will not cycle to be able to decock, then you will have to dry fire the gun. This can cause damage like a broken spring or other internals. To help lessen the chances of this, get yourself a thick cloth. Put it over the end of the barrel (WITHOUT YOUR HAND OVER THE END OF THE BARREL) to help put some resistance there to prevent the piston from slamming too hard. Then release the sear to fire it. Hope some of this helps but most importantly, BE CAREFUL. Guns and parts can be replaces, body parts can not.

[shadow]

That's downright scary looking but as mentioned above overkill with safety is no problem in the situation. I mentioned it in your post in the China Gate if you pulling the trigger all the way back and it's not engaging anything then you will use a tool to get into the sear and release it from the piston. Set yourself up for this since it will fire and you want something out front to stop the lead safely, safety glasses please.:) Ed

[ezman604]

[QUOTE]shadow - 2/2/2010 12:21 PM Set yourself up for this since it will fire and you want something out front to stop the lead safely, safety glasses please.:) Ed[/QUOTE]

Excellent points Ed. I was under the impression the gun was cocked but nothing in the chamber. No need for a rag over the end of the barrel if it is loaded. Just put a thick piece of that particle board or something similar in front of the barrel tocatch the lead. And DEFINATELY wear safety glasses!!!!!

[kcurrie]

It's not loaded now-- after I cocked and and it didn't fire I got the pellet out with some weedwacker line. The thought of messing around with the sear hoping for the gun to go off is somewhat scary... I have been considering a "controlled demolition" type thing... The spring is currently being held in by two screwdrivers, the one on the top and the one on the side. I could probably take it right out of the spring compressor-- the bottom board broke because I was cranking the spring in and it didn't want to go any further back in, so something had to give. So anyway, I would start by wrapping the spring end of the gun with a blanket, I have some ikea slats for a bed that are held together with strips of canvas.. I would wrap these slates around the blanket as well. I could start undoing the c-clamp. I'll know within a couple of turns if the screwdrivers will hold (I believe they will). Assuming I can get the c-clamp undone I would attempt to pull the top screwdriver out-- that should be fine as the side one is almost all the way through to the other side... if I can get this far the endcap is held in only by the single screwdriver. I could wrap blankets and boards around this in a way that I would be free to pull out the screwdriver, setting the spring loose. I would then tie a rope onto the screwdriver, open the garage door, close it most of the way (except a foot or so at the bottom), stand outside and yank out the screwdriver.

Is this as crazy as it sounds?

[mjb108]

I'd use a couple of long pipe clamps or similar to capture the ends of the spring compressor board that is cracking.  I can't see your pictures because I'm at work and they're blocked here.  I suppose the board is starting to bend.  I would do nothing to bend it back, just put one or more long clamps on the length.  Release the spring tension by backing off on the screw.  Once you relieve even an inch of tension you should be out of the woods and be able to release the remaining tension safely.

If you want to salvage the compressor afterwards, I agree that gluing a board on the back is a great idea (3/4" plywood?)  I just don't think you should flex it in it's current condition, and you should not depend on clamping another board to it, as that relies on friction.  You want longitundinal clamping restraint, and you don't want to have to depend on friction to develop it.

Mike

[kcurrie]

After the gun failed to fire I originally tried removing the spring-- I had backed the c-clamp off at least 2 inches or more, however at that point I got concerned about the endcap or spring guide slipping off and hitting me. I then kicked myself for not putting on the bit of pvc pipe I normally slide over the end of the c-clamp and spring to prevent this. After the kicking stopped I thought I'd crank the spring back in, put the pin in and then put the pvc pipe on.. when cranking back in is when the board cracked-- although I already had some screwdrivers in the holes on the endcap preventing it from popping out.

I will salvage the compressor later, and replace the bottom with some hardward I have here.

[ezman604]

Well, here isMY personal opinion. I WOULD NOT release the clamp or attempt to pull the two screwdrivers with this thing in the cocked position. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on dry firing to release the massive spring pressure. The clamp AND the screwdrivers are holding everything in place.The spring tensionwould have to break a lot of stuff to go flying right now. The clamp and the screwdrivers are your only safety devices you have!!!!

I would put a thick cloth over the end of the barrel, and from as much distance as possible, and possibly with something between you and the setup, release the sear to get the tension off that spring. Be sure to wear goggles, safety glasses, motorcycle helmet or some body armor (whatever safety clothing you can get your hands on). An old mattress between you and the apparatus would be a good idea. Did you try to see how far the barrel will come back in the cocking cycle? Decocking is still the best alternative if possible. Again, just MHO.