Whats with people not being able to down woodchucks with 22 rimmies? I'm not asking, nor pointing at anyone particular, but i'vebeen hearing this more lately...thats really the only gun that i've used to kill ground hogs with.. and i've had very very few get away.. last year i had 1 get way, and the son also had 1 get away.. we got 14, but shoulda had 16... I used to use hollow points for head shots that were 200fps or so below supersonic line, but switched to solid lead for the better penetration,, as anything over 25 yards with the HP's just expanded TO fast and didn't make humane kills,, The very first 1 that i shot was at 65 yards with the hollowpoints (quite a while ago),,, i put a head shot on,, heard the impact.. and seen the groundhog drunkidly wobble back to his hole,, luckily he stoped again, and i put one behind the shoulder, and then quickly ran down there incase... it ended up that the hollowpoint never actually went into the brain cavitity, stopped when it hit the skull, broke the skull into many pieces, but the slug itself never went in... Last year the son shot a groundhog at 70-75 yards with the solid leads.. went right though the head,, in oneside, out the other,, ofcourse there was no expansion, but the hog never moved.. and the solid leads are only going around 1300fps Maybe it's just me, but i'd rather have more "overkill" then not enough oomph in the slug,,which might explain why i never use anything less than a 30-06 for deer