Author Topic: Quite some interesting events in the last few days  (Read 3484 times)

Offline geiger

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Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« on: March 25, 2010, 10:05:45 AM »
Hi again, it's me again. I know i'm not popular here but there are such interesting times i couldn't resist posting.


Unless you've been living under a rock you'd probably heard of the bricks thrown at windows, cut gas lines,...

Not that it is really much of my business,  i'd still like to know two things.

What is your take on it? Do you see it as an act of terrorism? Do you welcome it?


The other

I find it quite amusing that after all this time people still think "conservatives/republicans" are their saviors. Libertines are still an obscure minority that probably will never gain any popularity. No, republicans are not libertines and sure as hell they are not constitutionalists. Republicans are the same people playing the same game as the democrats, it's just that they play under a different dress.
How many of you will vote republican on the next election?



If you want to shoot people at least do it thoroughly. You see...doing favors to the big corporations really doesn't help the local mom and dad grocery store to stay in business. IMO the saddest thing that happened lately is the hijacking of the libertine movement/constitutionalists by conservatives and republicans.  
As an outsider you'll probably just tell  me to go to hell...but i really think you're not seeing the big picture.





P.S. My country has just categorized airguns over 200m/s (V0) as firearms. And as firearms you can't posses them without a permit nor shoot them anywhere you please. I'm seriously thinking of doing the permit and getting a .22 LR and eventually maybe a Glock. (one for fun, one for serious business). I'm keeping my panther, but now each time i go out in my back yard, it means i'm doing it illegally.  


Offline daveshoot

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RE: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 11:03:29 AM »


I think you mean "libertarians".



Libertines are more fun, but not likely to be saviours.



True Libertarians, on the other hand, are a fairly dour bunch, and also unlikely to be saviours. For one thing they are generally too selfish to save anyone else, and foranother they are unable to organize. They are a little like "true communists",both beingso far out on their respective wings that their ideology transcends their practical value.It is nice of them to keep the philosophical ideal alive, but they are just political curiousities.



Any true conservative has strong libertarian leanings, but they can keep both feet on the ground. A conservative shouldmean someone who wants to stay as close to the wording and intentof the original constitution as possible (my definition), and enough people like that could indeed save us. Being "Republican" is not the same thing. It is really up to us to determine whom Republicans represent. If there aren't enough of us, we lose.



The folks threatening civil war etc. over this issue should pause to reflect, if there aren't enough Americans with guts and sense enough to vote these socialists out, there certainly aren't enough to win a fight in the streets with a uniformed force under orders. It would have to get a lot worse to justify that kind of talk. IMO.

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Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 11:22:41 AM »
Mike, I thought someone had shot you...:) Have not seen you around for a while. Good thing you do not live here because many of us would consider you a pest..:) And initiate pest control..:) Which air gun would you prefer to be shot with? and which pellet type..:)
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
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Offline geiger

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RE: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 11:48:38 AM »
Quote
daveshoot - 3/25/2010  4:03 PM



I think you mean "libertarians".



Libertines are more fun, but not likely to be saviours.



True Libertarians, on the other hand, are a fairly dour bunch, and also unlikely to be saviours. For one thing they are generally too selfish to save anyone else, and for another they are unable to organize. They are a little like "true communists", both being so far out on their respective wings that their ideology transcends their practical value. It is nice of them to keep the philosophical ideal alive, but they are just political curiousities.



Any true conservative has strong libertarian leanings, but they can keep both feet on the ground. A conservative should mean someone who wants to stay as close to the wording and intent of the original constitution as possible (my definition), and enough people like that could indeed save us. Being "Republican" is not the same thing. It is really up to us to determine whom Republicans represent. If there aren't enough of us, we lose.



The folks threatening civil war etc. over this issue should pause to reflect, if there aren't enough Americans with guts and sense enough to vote these socialists out, there certainly aren't enough to win a fight in the streets with a uniformed force under orders. It would have to get a lot worse to justify that kind of talk. IMO.



Yes, my bad it's libertarians. That word always gave me a headache. (but i think libertines might be the french word, not sure)


Any ideology can be pushed to extremes. In general they are more for personal freedom and small gov. Depends what branch are you looking at. I think the American libertarians are as close as it gets to the original ideology of your founding fathers. Something that should be looked in.

As far as i know the republican party after the 20th century went completely FUBAR (much like the democrats).
It really doesn't take a genius to figure out the US politics have a serious health issue. Cycling two parties for the last century in no way can be considered healthy. I mean...surely you must realize that.
Corruption is rife in both sides.
So i think even if you don't agree with a particular third party i still think it would be better to vote a random one than reinstate the crooks once again.
Really, as an outside viewer i was kinda optimistic when the whole "constitutionalists" movement began...finally a real change i thought to myself, but seems the situation is getting more comical by the day.

Aside from this your politics system needs much overhauling. Making lobbying more transparent would be a good start.
Not that i'd care in different circumstances, but as you can remember the global economic collapse was first and foremost perpetrated by your irresponsible financial system. Believe it or not...it was felt here, quite substantially must i say.

Disagree with me all you want, but one way or another you'll realize some regulations must be imposed for preventing greedy people to ravage the whole place. And i think i have more than enough evidence to back this statement up. It is no longer a case of speculation.

Government issued restrictions...yes. Government running it's own show...probably not. I hope you differentiate between these two.  If your government would just band such despicable practices as pre-condition health insurance, make a standard for essentials medicine so it would be more accessible.  This whole fiasco with the national health reform wouldn't even be needed.



As for the inciting violence part...i'm glad you take the position you do. This is not enough to start killing people. Violence can solve some problems, but the "opposition" uses it so indiscriminately and irresponsibly it's not even funny anymore.

Offline geiger

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 11:50:22 AM »
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Gene_SC - 3/25/2010  4:22 PM

Mike, I thought someone had shot you...:) Have not seen you around for a while. Good thing you do not live here because many of us would consider you a pest..:) And initiate pest control..:) Which air gun would you prefer to be shot with? and which pellet type..:)


Considering the history,  situation and general attitude i can't say that was funny. But ok...i understand.


Edit: wadcutters, i still maintain the idea that with sub 900FPS, HP aren't better :)

Offline Gene_SC

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 12:33:31 PM »
It was meant to be a funny Mike..:) so carry on..:) The post backs should be very interesting to say the least..:)
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Offline TCups

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 01:01:01 PM »
Medicare is now facing unfunded deficits of 30,000,000,000,000.   Social Security, unfunded deficits of 10,000,000,000,000.  Social Security has, for this year, and 6 years prior to the previous projections, reached the point of paying out more in monthly benefits than they will take in.   America has doubled its money supply (ie, printed twice as much paper money and put it into the banking system) over the last year.  Against about a 70% polled opposition, including another 59% who actively support its repeal, our government "of the people, by the people and for the people" has passed the "Mother" of all unfunded entitlements, which will make both Medicare and Social Security seem like chump change.  Along with this, there is a mandate that requires private citizens to purchase health insurance or else be fined. 15,000 new IRS agents are to be added to enforce the provisions of "health care reform".  And lets see -- yes, the taxes and fees imposed over the next 10 years will cover the costs of the program for  6 years, as the benefits of the plan start in 4 years, and that is only if you trust the projections of the CBO and wink-wink-nod-nod, don't look too close to how they handle Medicare expenses -- taking 500 billion out of this pocket and putting it into that pocket and calling it "savings".  And fortunately, now that the bill has passed, the American people will, for the first time, learn what is really in the bill.   And oh, yes, the federal elected officials have now, and retroactively, and in perpetuity, exempted themselves and their staff from the provisions of the "reform", and guaranteed their existing health care benefits for life.  And yes, all this, ostensibly, was to bring health care coverage to those unfortunate 40 million folks who had no health care coverage (other than being able to show up 24/7/365, citizen or not, in any ER coast to coast, and to qualify for Medcaid, which will now be the lowest common denominator of all government controlled health care if they were truly in financial need).  Castro, by the way, gave it his ringing endorsement just today.  Why, in almost no time, we will have a health care system on par with Cuba, I bet.

Now what was your question about conservatives and republicans?  This has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans.  This has to do with the Socialist/Marxist/Communist (chose your own totalitarian government description) take-over of the heretofore Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of the peoples of the  United States of America.  It is a sad, sad, and frightening time for many of us, who apparently lack your wisdom, experience and politically enlightened world view, geiger.  Please, as a politically superior Canadian, do let us know how we should now think and behave.  It is a brave new world to all of us "great unwashed".  But now having surrendered (forfeited) our economic future to the will of an enlightened few of the elite ruling class, perhaps you can give us some clue as to the proper way for us to behave in the current situation.  As always, we value you learned Canadian opinions as to what motivates Americans and how we should react and respond to such things political within our national boarders. Thanks so much!  I do look forward to your knowledgeable (and always entertaining) response, geiger.

BTW, as the American economy collapses, so will go the Canadian economy.  Count on it.



Offline geiger

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 02:18:05 PM »
Quote
TCups - 3/25/2010  6:01 PM

Medicare is now facing unfunded deficits of 30,000,000,000,000.   Social Security, unfunded deficits of 10,000,000,000,000.  Social Security has, for this year, and 6 years prior to the previous projections, reached the point of paying out more in monthly benefits than they will take in.   America has doubled its money supply (ie, printed twice as much paper money and put it into the banking system) over the last year.  Against about a 70% polled opposition, including another 59% who actively support its repeal, our government "of the people, by the people and for the people" has passed the "Mother" of all unfunded entitlements, which will make both Medicare and Social Security seem like chump change.  Along with this, there is a mandate that requires private citizens to purchase health insurance or else be fined. 15,000 new IRS agents are to be added to enforce the provisions of "health care reform".  And lets see -- yes, the taxes and fees imposed over the next 10 years will cover the costs of the program for  6 years, as the benefits of the plan start in 4 years, and that is only if you trust the projections of the CBO and wink-wink-nod-nod, don't look too close to how they handle Medicare expenses -- taking 500 billion out of this pocket and putting it into that pocket and calling it "savings".  And fortunately, now that the bill has passed, the American people will, for the first time, learn what is really in the bill.   And oh, yes, the federal elected officials have now, and retroactively, and in perpetuity, exempted themselves and their staff from the provisions of the "reform", and guaranteed their existing health care benefits for life.  And yes, all this, ostensibly, was to bring health care coverage to those unfortunate 40 million folks who had no health care coverage (other than being able to show up 24/7/365, citizen or not, in any ER coast to coast, and to qualify for Medcaid, which will now be the lowest common denominator of all government controlled health care if they were truly in financial need).  Castro, by the way, gave it his ringing endorsement just today.  Why, in almost no time, we will have a health care system on par with Cuba, I bet.


I really have no quarrel with this part, why do you think i do? I stated clearly that the issue could be resolved differently than what obama did.

I'm only a bit annoyed when people like to compare health care of the US and the rest of the world.
I think it's clearly obvious that they all have advantages and disadvantages.
The US clearly does better in more specific, complex procedures (like hip replacement, cancer,...), other countries do better with more everyday issues, less specialized treatments.
I never really argued about this point, so i'm not sure why the hostility.



Quote
Now what was your question about conservatives and republicans?  This has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans.  This has to do with the Socialist/Marxist/Communist (chose your own totalitarian government description) take-over of the heretofore Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of the peoples of the  United States of America.  It is a sad, sad, and frightening time for many of us, who apparently lack your wisdom, experience and politically enlightened world view, geiger.  Please, as a politically superior Canadian, do let us know how we should now think and behave.  It is a brave new world to all of us "great unwashed".  But now having surrendered (forfeited) our economic future to the will of an enlightened few of the elite ruling class, perhaps you can give us some clue as to the proper way for us to behave in the current situation.  As always, we value you learned Canadian opinions as to what motivates Americans and how we should react and respond to such things political within our national boarders. Thanks so much!  I do look forward to your knowledgeable (and always entertaining) response, geiger.

BTW, as the American economy collapses, so will go the Canadian economy.  Count on it



This has exactly to do with Democrats and republicans. The socialist/marxist/whatever is not really my concern.
What i'm talking about is the corruption of both parties and how the vast majority of americans are oblivious to it. Just think it logically...there are 300 million+ americans that are represented by two...i repeat, TWO parties that have been ruling more than a century 300 million people. How is that not a recipe for disaster?
Aside from that there's the issue with the FED, lobbying, corporations having voting rights,...

Face it, the current US politics are a cesspool of corruption that has world wide implications. Seriously if i told a martian that 300 million people are represented by only two views, they'd laugh at me.

What to do? If you'd realize i'm not presenting anything new, just reinforcing past opinions that should have been implemented long ago.
Didn't like half a year ago people on this forum got all excited about that movement who wished to reform congress and give power to the people or something along those lines? What happened to that? Back to the old bad habits? You people have the guns, you are getting all riled up about it.
Any sane, observant and non bribed US politician knows this system is starting to reek really badly.

If the US was Liberia or something we probably wouldn't care, but as you can remember the last few years were really *_*_*_*_*_*ty economically speaking. You're very correct in asserting that the fall of the US economy is going to affect the rest of the world...that's why i'm here debating this.


I'm pretty sure you didn't watch Moore's Capitalism: A love story. Obviously Moore is not to be completely trusted, but check the original video clip where the FED ceo (or it was the ceo of some major bank of his financial advisor, not sure check it out) told president Reagan to speed up in a speech. How can anyone tell the president to speed it up, unless the president is just a puppet.
Really i'm not spreading lies here, check it out for yourself ...it hit me by surprise. I hope you understand this is not a case against republicans, but i'm kinda hoping you can see the bigger picture.

Offline geiger

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 02:45:48 PM »
Heh, voting for Ron Paul would be a very good start. That man is the only open politician that understands economics. He attends congress sessions about financial legislature and so forth while other congressman are absent.

I even think R. Paul is ending ties with republicans and forming his own party. And he's even a christian, this as being a obligatory condition to hold public seats.

On the other hand people might vote for Palin, who is barely competent in answering questions, let alone politics or heaven forbid economics.

Offline TCups

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 02:58:00 PM »
Up or Down?  Liberty or Tyranny?
America has no monopoly on corrupt politicians.  Republicans have their faults, no doubt, but the magnitude of corruption and amount of moneys involved in the current sad chapter is breath-taking on a global scale, and pales in comparison to anything I suspect any Republican has ever dreamed of.  And the complicity of the liberal news media adds and exclamation point!

Two-party politics (Bi-cameral legislatures, Tory/Whig, Federalist/Republican, liberal/conservative, left/right -- call it what you will, is hardly an American construct.  And technically speaking, America has now and has in the past had the Torys, Whigs, Federalists, Republicans, Bull Moose Party, American Communist Party, Green Party, "Independent" Party, Libertarian Party, Socialist Party (but they disdain to call themselves that, now), and probably others I am forgetting.  And in general, two opposing views are easier for most voters to sort out than a multi-party government of coalition and consensus.  Bigger government or smaller government?  Stronger Federal Government or State Government?  More federal entitlements or fewer government entitlements?  Higher taxes or lower taxes?  More open trade or more restrictive tarriffs and taxes?  Bigger defense budgets/stronger military or smaller defense budgets/weaker military?  More government spending or less government spending?  Bllanced budgets or deficit spending?  Stronger government internal security measures or more personal liberties?  Open-door immigration policy or restrictive immigration policy?  Amnesty for illegal aliens or deportation?  Capitalism or Socialism?  Freedom of Speech or restrictions on "Hate Speech" (by the way, how do you decide that one in Canada?)?  Domestic energy production or dependence on foreign sources?  Federally insured abortion on demand or individual state laws regarding reproductive health issues?  Private personal property or imminent domain and federally owned land?  Globalism or Isolationist foreign policy?  Legalized marijuana or strict drug laws?  Free range or barbed wire fences?  Coke or Pepsi?  The problem lies not with two parties or the two-party construct, but with good vs. evil, right vs wrong, helpful vs. hurtful . . .  

Name personal politics by  any darned party name you want.  Renaming a political party is an exercise in futility and to think otherwise, one has to ignore basic human nature and the entire course of history.  I believe that the two-party system has and will continue to serve this country well.  Marginalizing one party or the other by adding in a third party, be it Ross Perot or Ralph Nader, will always work to the detriment of one party and one set of political views and to the advantage of the other.  A cursory look at the recent political history of the United States underscores that fact.  

The current administration is, in my  opinion, the most evil I have ever seen.  Barack Hussein Obama is a liar, and has misrepresented his intentions on almost every campaign promise he ran on.  The American voting public holds him in lower regard than any other President in modern history if political polls are to be believed.  And if we want him re-elected, all we have to do is to split the opposition into Republican Party and Tea Party and see how a divided opposition fares in the next election against the current administration and its left-wing, liberal, socialist, labor (Communist) coalition.  No  thanks, geiger. Two parties work just fine for me.  I will be voting Republican, and I suspect a great majority of the voting American public (those who have jobs or want jobs, those who pay the taxes instead of live on the government dole, those who have actually paid for the homes they live in  . . .) will be joining me.  The trick is to vote for honest politicians -- those who will be accountable to the people who elected them, not to the power brokers of the current corrupt administration.  And without re-naming anything, at least for now, the American public has a perfect and powerful opportunity to do so called free elections.

Offline TCups

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 03:16:15 PM »
What questions did she answer incompetently, as compared to, say, that intellectual giant, Vice President Biden?  Do you find Nancy Pelosi to be more articulate and a better voice for the opinions you may hold?  Or was that sad excuse of a pot-head comedian Al Franken more of your political ilk?  Or maybe Barney Frank?  Or how about Dingle who bemoans how difficult it is going to be to "control the American people?"

Do you think that Ron Paul running as a Libertarian in his own party in the next election makes it more or less likely Obama will be re-elected and suggest that it would be a good plan for him to do so?   Do you trust that the "pay per view" crowds mustered for almost all of Obama's political stumping and "town meetings" are more responsive and representative of mainstream American public opinion that the crowds generated by an appearance of Sara Palen and those at the American Tea Party rallies?  If so, you are disconnected from political reality in these United States.  

Speaking of "Hate Speech", no one has suffered more unjustly from that foul stench than Sara Palen has.  I guess it is just too bad that the team of 40 lawyers sent to investigate her prior to the election weren't able to come up with something more substantial than "she's really not very smart" and "she spent too much time and money shopping for clothes"

You pick your political icons and I will pick mine.  Sara Palen would, BTW, win in a landslide over BHO if they ran in a heads-up election tomorrow, and don't kid yourself otherwise.  Of course, so would Ron Paul.

Offline daveshoot

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RE: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 04:12:00 PM »


Actually I think it was the Marquis de Sade who popularized the term "libertine" in most translations. "Libertarian" is strictly anglais. I am not sure what the hell Ron Paul is.



I am a "Ronald Reagan conservative" who believes the American people are bigger than they think they are. That's what true conservatives have always believed. It's when you doubt it that you reach for other solutions.



PS: coalition governments basically are a two-party system, with more compromises and internal politics and runoffs and no-confidence votes etc. on the way to the final decision. It always ends up with one out, and one in. We don't have time for that, with the 40 hour work week and all (hah! I wish...) so we just cut right to the finals.

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Offline North Pack

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 12:07:28 AM »
The Frenchman (don't recall his name at the moment) who said that when folks/citizens could vote themselves/tap into the a countries treasury - the show was over, - IS RIGHT ON !!! - While it may take awhile, we're on our way to becoming the next Greece. ..... As we speak, Portugal & Spain are about to follow Greece, and the wonderful EU is now under strain it never imagined, but was right in front of it from day one.

Offline geiger

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Re: Quite some interesting events in the last few days
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 08:49:02 AM »
Quote
TCups - 3/25/2010  7:58 PM

Up or Down?  Liberty or Tyranny?
America has no monopoly on corrupt politicians.  Republicans have their faults, no doubt, but the magnitude of corruption and amount of moneys involved in the current sad chapter is breath-taking on a global scale, and pales in comparison to anything I suspect any Republican has ever dreamed of.  And the complicity of the liberal news media adds and exclamation point!

Two-party politics (Bi-cameral legislatures, Tory/Whig, Federalist/Republican, liberal/conservative, left/right -- call it what you will, is hardly an American construct.  And technically speaking, America has now and has in the past had the Torys, Whigs, Federalists, Republicans, Bull Moose Party, American Communist Party, Green Party, "Independent" Party, Libertarian Party, Socialist Party (but they disdain to call themselves that, now), and probably others I am forgetting.  And in general, two opposing views are easier for most voters to sort out than a multi-party government of coalition and consensus.  Bigger government or smaller government?  Stronger Federal Government or State Government?  More federal entitlements or fewer government entitlements?  Higher taxes or lower taxes?  More open trade or more restrictive tarriffs and taxes?  Bigger defense budgets/stronger military or smaller defense budgets/weaker military?  More government spending or less government spending?  Bllanced budgets or deficit spending?  Stronger government internal security measures or more personal liberties?  Open-door immigration policy or restrictive immigration policy?  Amnesty for illegal aliens or deportation?  Capitalism or Socialism?  Freedom of Speech or restrictions on "Hate Speech" (by the way, how do you decide that one in Canada?)?  Domestic energy production or dependence on foreign sources?  Federally insured abortion on demand or individual state laws regarding reproductive health issues?  Private personal property or imminent domain and federally owned land?  Globalism or Isolationist foreign policy?  Legalized marijuana or strict drug laws?  Free range or barbed wire fences?  Coke or Pepsi?  The problem lies not with two parties or the two-party construct, but with good vs. evil, right vs wrong, helpful vs. hurtful . . .  


It's not that bipolar as you put it. Just take some few examples. Military spending, republicans like to throw alot of money at them and are not shy in engaging wars, democrats are the opposite.
An alternative would be to invest more in a defensive military and keep out of trouble abroad.
Domestic energy usage, yeah sure...but republicans don't like to acknowledge the fact that some saving measures must be implemented. Human greed knows no limit and you'll quickly run out of any energy source.
Legalized marijuana...medical marijuana is perfectly fine (i'd go farther than that but lets keep it here for now).

There are other options that work quite as good if not better. The very fact that you only see good or evil in the world is a testament to the narrow minded US view. Things are not that simple as you wanted to be. To some it's good to some evil.
 

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The current administration is, in my  opinion, the most evil I have ever seen.  Barack Hussein Obama is a liar, and has misrepresented his intentions on almost every campaign promise he ran on.  The American voting public holds him in lower regard than any other President in modern history if political polls are to be believed.  And if we want him re-elected, all we have to do is to split the opposition into Republican Party and Tea Party and see how a divided opposition fares in the next election against the current administration and its left-wing, liberal, socialist, labor (Communist) coalition.  No  thanks, geiger. Two parties work just fine for me.  I will be voting Republican, and I suspect a great majority of the voting American public (those who have jobs or want jobs, those who pay the taxes instead of live on the government dole, those who have actually paid for the homes they live in  . . .) will be joining me.  The trick is to vote for honest politicians -- those who will be accountable to the people who elected them, not to the power brokers of the current corrupt administration.  And without re-naming anything, at least for now, the American public has a perfect and powerful opportunity to do so called free elections.


Well, you have a pretty self centered view on what is evil. The hundreds of thousands of people (US and Iraqi alike) killed in a fraudulent war, that will end in even greater fail can be considered evil by many.
I don't care about Obama (i saw him as fake since the very beginning), so far Bush and Obama did a pretty good job at willfully screwing up everything, just another testament to my original argument.


I'm truly scared if someone the likes of Palin gets elected. She and her ilk are as incompetent as any other celebrity politician, be it democrat or republican.  

I'd love to see some fresh faces in US politics, but considering the situation i think there won't be much change after all.
Just hope the rest of the world doesn't get dragged along like it did. I don't mean that as an insult, believe me, i'd really wish the best for America, but i just don't see anything to be optimistic of right now.

To this day it still perplexes me that both parties were strongly for the bailouts, but people here still think if our man does it, then it must be better. That is the very definition of hardcore partisanship.