Setting up a shop?!

[michael90t]

OK here is the situation.. I have been unemployed for over a year now and really see no light at the end of this tunnel LOL I have all the hand tools and small power tools I would need to setup a shop minus a decent bench top lathe and a welding setup. Now I know we all have begin somewhere and while I freely admit I don't have the experience with pellet rifles themselves I to bring to the table a literal lifetime ofexperience in firearms gunsmithing and about 10 years as an airsmith working in the paintball industry tuning guns and building custom markers (which would cover pretty much everything in the PCP and pumper/gas field)... I bring this all up because a person has offered to pick up whatever tooling I would need to setup a tuning shop which would include a decent lathe and tooling plus the welder I would need.....

So my questions to everyone is....

Would you be willing to send your rifle to someone that's not as well known as the big dogs like gene or mike?? and if so what other customs items would you like a tuning shop to provide??? such as brakes and shrouds?? spring guides/top hats out of custom materials like delrin, stainless etc etc?????

P.S. Gene I looked around but couldn't find anything against this type of question... I know you run this place and I know some places are real sticklers about people asking or advertising competing business so if there are any problems with this post please let me know and remove it :) LOL as far as competing goes from the sounds of it there is a little room for growth in this industry as everyone seems so swamped :)

[SDale]

I would!

But then again... My friends see me as "Different" hehe

Got for it man!

[daveshoot]

There are specialties within airgunning that seem even more swamped. Look at the custom 1377 parts biz- everyone who makes steel breeches, for example, seems backordered most of the time. They run small batches, build up a waiting list, and try to meet the demand.

BSA rifles are notoriously complex and there are few tuners who work on them as a result. It wouldbe a difficult field in which to build expertise but there isn't much of it out there.

The paradox is the same as so many other things, of course- how do you get the expertise without the work, how do you get the work without the experience? But there is definitely room in the industry. I wonder if you could get apprenticed to a big name?

One well-known person is working himself to an early grave with his Marauder specialty. I wonder if that is an opportunity, because that man needs help. That one guy has become the go-to for the whole market of forum dwellers for one model of air gun.

I wonder if Crosman themselves have any kind of program or interest in tuners? They are doing everything else right lately, and paying attention to the high end of the market.

Best of luck! There is room for more.

[Gene_SC]

Hey Michael, I have no problem with someone trying to make  living. And certainly there is allot of room in our community for another tuner. Bob and I started the GTA in order to help the air gun community grow bigger. As far as your post here, I have no problem with it. We just do not like sefl promoting in the forums. This is something that I avoid as a tuner.

Good luck with your new business...

[Bogey]

Mike,   I know this is sort of off the " setting up a shop" question,   but what sort of a business plan do you have?   Have you ever ran or owned your own business?    Setting up a shop is the easy part.    There are many questions that you should ask yourself before you start.   And answer them honestly.  I could probably list at least 100 questions regarding you starting a business.

I am not telling you not to try.  But please consider that  operating your own shop for the purposes of making money is not that easy.   If you fail to plan.....plan to fail.  

Maybe someone that actually is running a for profit shop, like you describe ,will step up and talk about the business details  part of a shop.

You may be the most talented machinist out there but without business skills you may flounder until you give up.  Unless you are running your shop as a charity.

I know it hurts to be unemployed for so long a time, but have faith and keep your head up and keep trying.

Good Luck.

[michael90t]

Dave, yea I know there are alot of things people may want thats why I was also asking for items or services they may want to see offered, yea the paradox of no major EXP with pellet rifles and how to get the exeriance is one of the reason I made the post too LOL trying to see if people are willing to give a new guy a chance at making a name for themselves :)

I would love to hook up with one of the big guys even if it was just for a week of slave labor but unfortunatly no-one really lives that close to me.... by the time my kids get out of school where I could have their mom watch them while I was gone for a week or so its going to be summertime.....

Gene, Thanks for understanding!! I definatly understand the frowning on of self promotion on the forums!!!!

Bogey, all very good questions!! I have some idea of running a small outfitand have already tried to break things down to see if I could be competitive on pricing and stay in the ballpark of what everyone else is charging and still turn out a hourly wage LOL trust me and I am pretty sure Gene will jump right in there and agree... After materials and then shipping back to the person for what he is charging you will NOT get ritch no matter HOW busy you get LOL.. I feel its definatly a worthwhile venture as its not bad money but it is definatly far from great money :) then again... getting paid to do something you really enjoy goes along way to making good into a dream :)

[Gene_SC]

Michael, I was very fortunate that CDT "CharlieDaTune" , Bob Werner took me in and showed me the ropes. Our relationship is more than just air guns. We share allot in common and especially our attitudes are very close. I met Bob at his house about 5 years ago holding a Gamo Shadow and asking him to tune my S1K to shoot 1200 fps.. He smiled and handed me my gun back and said I do not tune for FPS. I tune air guns for performance and went on for about 5 minutes trying to explain to me what he meant.. Well it went in one ear and out the other...:) But I left my gun and a couple days later he called me up and told me it was ready. After about 6 more tune in a months time he said, hey Gene why don't you just stick around here and learn something..:) His big mistake.. hehehe. So after about two years of that we became very close and that is how the GTA was made. With Bob's years of experience and all his knowledge that we put in the GTA Library and a bit of programming on my part the GTA was born.. I wanted to pay back all the guys who helped me learn the ropes about shooting etc. with air guns.. My first year after meeting Bob I bought close to 100 air guns. I would drag them over to Bob's and he would teach me about that particular model air gun. I must mention that Bob did not let me work on his customers guns...:) For those first two years I tuned most all my own guns. Yes it was expensive but I loved it and Bob could see it...:) So then Bob wanted to retire and asked me if I wanted to take over his tuning business. Well, here I am after two years of it and boy am I tired...:) Not tired of air guns but tired of the 7 days a week grind of working on them.

The most important thing is not how much you charge but how happy the customer is when he gets his gun back. I would never get rich tuning guns and never expected to. My price's are the same as Bob's price's when he was tuning. Money was never an issue with me but just the pleasure of being able to turn a rock into a diamond...:) Tuners pricing varies from very cheap to very high depending on what guns they tune. You will find that some tuners only work on some models and not others. I am that way also but I tune mostly the middle of the road air guns and down. I do tune the high end English and German guns but mostly Gamo's and RWS.

Remember you will need to learn how to crawl before you can walk. Your honesty and character is very important as well. There are guys who just start tuning for the money and they come and go. So be very careful that you do not bite off more than you can chew at first...:)

[CharlieDaTuna]

I agree with Gene and the others for the most part. You need to be careful though because unless you have the experience of working on a number of different guns and also have a bit of a business background. you may find yourself in a serious financial position. I spent over a year working on mostly Chinese guns for someone and for next to nothing just to gain experience. Back then, no one told you anything and tuners didn't want you to know.

All it takes is a couple of mistakes on a few customers guns and you could be in deep trouble. And in tuning, to do it properly, you would need at least a  lathe and milling machine along with some good basic machine shop skills and tooling skills.... a parts inventory including springs and seals as well as small parts and the needed proper lubes.

As Gene said, he worked under me for well over a year before I satisfied with what he had learned and started letting him work on guns on his own but I was always looking over his shoulder. It was another year before he started up on his own and doing customer tunes and then another year before I turned my business over to him and retired. Gene did pay his dues.

Over the years on our forum there have been a number of people that have tried it and a couple have made it but most have not and the loss was so great that it hurt them far more than any gain financially. I have seen dozens of hope-to-be tuners come and go. 90% of the time it was because they were not prepared and didn't have the experience. They thought it is quick easy money but they learned the hard way that.... usually if it's legal... nothing comes easy.

I'm not trying to discourage you or anybody else but unless you are prepared and have the experience, preferably at least a year of so and some basic business foundation under you, you should really give it some deep and serious consideration.

CDT

[Big_Bill]

Hey Michael,

I wish you the best of luck in what ever you decide to do !!!!

But I looked at the price of a Pro Turbo Tune, and say it cost $145.00, $20.00+ dollars goes right two return shipping, and $70.00parts and lubes. And if it only takes you two hours to do the work, your making $27.50 per hour. And that doesn't include your time packaging the air gun and taking them the your shipper !

I believe that a Pro Turbo tune is the best value out there, if your have a knowledgeable Tuner like Bob or Gene !!!

I think if you want to make money from air guns, sell them !

But I do wish you the BEST !

Bill

[LongIslandArcher]

I've been apprenticing at an archery pro shop for the past 15 months, ever since I got laid off on New Year's Eve 2008.  I've gotten to be a pretty good bow tuner and working on a lot of different bows.  I've also gotten into fixing/tuning airguns for myself and my friends.  In the past 3 months, I've worked on several other airguns, which include FWB, RWS, Gamo and Crosman.  In either specialty, I've found that sometimes, special tools need to be made in order to get the job done.  The secret to working on bows or airguns or anything else, for that matter, is patience.  Mistakes will be made along the way, but that's part of the whole process.  With the way this economy is going, diversity will keep you alive.  Those people who only have one set of skills won't be able to make it on their own.  When a man loves what he does at making his living, he won't have to work a day in his life.  Good luck with your endeavor and I hope to God this nightmare we're living right now ends soon.

[kiwi]

Hi...
I would say start off ..small as a hobby/sideline and you
will get a idea how its going to go then build it up....
Just don't put all yer eggs in one basket from the start
and try and make it yer liveing in the first week..After all
if its possable it will happen....

Give it a go..nothing to lose as they say....

Best of luck if yer deside to give it a shake...

Pete

[michael90t]

Thats some good info and advice there guys thanks!!!!

CDT, Yes I would love to be able to start out with both a mill and a lathe unfortunatly thats not in the budget :) then again there is not much you cant accomplish with a little thought a drill press and a cross slide vise either :)

Bill, LOL I dont plan on coming close to those #'s honestly I am figuring 4 hours per gun... and wont be offering a 'turbo tune" style of service from the beginning either... more along the line of Gene's(well I guess now Ed's :) ) basic tune is what I am looking at to start....

Kiwi, thats what I more or less plan on doing... I dont plan on it being a full time gig from the start... side job to help out... if it takes off it takes off if not I am not out a ton....

[Gene_SC]

Michael, you have allot to learn myfriend and a basic tune not many folks want. I have had 1 request in almost 2 years for a basic tune...

[michael90t]

Gene.... Maybe I was looking at it incorrectlyor worded it poorly :) your "super tune" is what I was considering as a basic fulltune... Is that level of service really that unpopular???

[Gene_SC]

And yes that was what I was refering to also. Ony 1 super tune in a year.