Tuned guns dont break scopes?

[Magnum]

There is always some talk of broken scopes on AG's reverse recoil and ratings of heavy versa light recoil etc...which got me thinking how many broken scopes have I had due to AG's recoil! About +/- 4  I can remember, not counting the ones from too long ago to remember .. which were basically a .22 scope or not rated for AG's anyway.
Scopes broken and replaced no questions asked thanks to good customer service/warranty  1. centerpiont 4-16x40ao, replaced at wally world 2.bsa 3-12x50ao replaced by bsa 3. bsa 4x32ao put in a box! 4. leapers 3-9x50ao replaced by leapers.
  The weird thing that dawned on me is that in each case the broken scopes, AG's were not tuned!
  One other theory I have, is that in testing a new untuned gun out I use a big array of pellets light thru heavy..no way of proving, but possible culpurit may altering recoil with too light/heavy is killing the scope prior to a tune and then using correct pellet weight for the AG?
The strange thing is that I have not had a broken scope from a tuned AG this may just be luck of the draw or perhaps an unadvertised Bonus to having all my tunes done by Gene:)  Gene sorry if I have let a secret/cat out of the bag here    
   I would be curious to know if  anyone else has notice this tuned and untuned phenomena before or perhaps a take on the use of too heavy pellet  too light pellet altering recoil and being a scope killer?

[arathol]

Nothing new in that idea. Guns such as the Diana 54 have gotten a reputation as scope killers, primarily because owners failed to realize that there was a problem with the gun. High power airguns need to have seals that are perfect, not nicked during installation or undersized or burned or whatever, and a matched spring/guide combination to eliminate spring vibration.  If the seal is even a bit defective the spring will overpower it and the piston will hit the end of the tube when the gun is fired. This makes for a very harsh shooting gun and will break a scope in short order. A powerful  spring on a loose guide vibrates a lot, a condition that can all by it self destroy a scope. Put them together and its a sure recipe for killing a scope.  A proper seal/spring/guide combination will greatly extend scope life. Assuming of course, the scope is properly rated and constructed for use on an airgun. If it isn't, it will break no matter what.

[airgunandy]

I have an untuned B3-F underlever, an untuned TF41 sidelever and a couple of untuned Crosman pumps that have never broken a scope. My youngest son's untuned Daisy Grizzly has never had a scope issue either.  

[keith2324]

I'm still testing this theory myself as I have broken two BSA scopes on my tuned B-28. I'm going to start using heavier pellets and see if there is any difference. Currently I am using 14.3 grain Crosman's.

Keith.

[RedFeather]

Not true. A tuned springer of sufficient power can easily break a scope. What's happening inside a springer is the piston lauches forward, providing a backwards thrust, then hits the limits of its ability to compress the air, rebounding against the compressed gas and now sending recoil the other way, then meets compression in the spring and moves forward, repeating this until the energy in the spring is dissipated. If the scope is not made for a springer (even a costly one) or is poorly built, this whip-saw recoil will shake it apart. Yes, poor mounts can add to this, but it is, primarily, the recoil characteristic of the spring gun that is the cause of the many failures you read about. Some air gun scopes do well on one or two power levels, only to fall on their butts when moved to a gun that's higher up the scale. For example, I bought a CenterPoint 4X16 (WalMart) to put on my 54 but, after reading where it failed on guns that were not quite so harsh, I've had to shelve that idea.

Tuning the gun will certainly help but you can't get around the dynamics of the whole system.

[HNT5]

It is the 2 way recoil inherent in all spring piston airguns, regardless of caliber, power or state of “tune” that breaks scopes. Most firearm scopes are not braced for recoil in 2 directions (forward and backward), instead being only braced for backward. Many firearm scopes are heavily braced for firearms but have little or no bracing for the forward recoil. Firearms generate much more recoil energy due to the explosive burning of the propellant and the weight of the projectile, but as a rule, it is all virtually rearward. When the piston (in a cocked spring/gas ram) is released, it rushed forward causing the gun to recoil rearward. Most scopes can handle that just fine.
But near the end of its forward travel, the piston is stopped by the high pressure air it just created. That’s what keeps the piston from slamming into the end of the compression chamber and self destructing quite quickly. But that air then pushes the piston backward as it tries to expand and cause the piston to move in the opposite direction. That causes a quick forward “jump” (recoil). It’s that jump that causes scope lenses to come loose and other bad things to happen to scopes. Tuning cannot remove the forward recoil as it is a result of the power plant design. It can remove most or all of the vibration and that is helpful to scope longevity.  I had a scope (a BSA Contender) last 3 shots on a Beeman R-10 before the lenses came loose inside.
HTH
Nathan

[RedFeather]

What me said.   The only scopes I know that fill the bill are Leupold. Every one is strong enough to put on a springer. There is also a school of thought which says the heavier the scope, the more recoil is soaks up. Variables have to be especially tough due to all of the internal mechanics.

[Magnum]

I have looked at the Leupold's V-111  as an option, you get what you pay for..but price is a problem for me:(   I have looked at the AOA and  straight shooters scope rating list and have several Hawke scope working great so far. Even thought that Bushell 3200 as good option too..Although In back of my mind I am always waiting for a fail.  I really hate the feeling that I am slowly breaking a good scope when in fact I may not be?
BTW Redfeather, What scope did you mount on the 54 if any at this time?     Thanks all for good info:)

[airiscool]

Sightron is another company that says all their entire line of scopes are springer rated and use on even magnum springers is covered under warrentee.

And, even the best of scopes can have problems. My late hunting partner loved Leupolds, but busted a couple of them practicing and shooting in alot of 12 ga slug gun competitions.

After trashing the Gamo scope it came with, and then an AG rated Leapers Accushot, my gas Whisper wears a cheap Bushnel Sportsman and it's held up fine. Go figure !

Seems that everytime there's a rule about what scopes should and shouldn't be used, someone breaks it ...and usually the scope too !!!    

Paul.

[RedFeather]

I'm currently using irons. It came with an RWS and rings, but I think that combo is too frail. Also bought a Dampa mount which is designed to isolate the recoil on heavy kickers, so I guess the CenterPoint would work OK in that platform. Recently picked up a Beeman sport aperture and might stick that on it next. No rush.

[thebookdoc]

I don't know that you can flat out say that any tuned gun will have recoil reduced enough to support any scope... I think it would depend on a few things that go beyond a generalization of that sort. Tuning can reduce recoil and can likely save or prolong the life of scopes. That it is absolutely a fix... I don't think even Gene would make that promise.

I stick with airgun rated scopes eventhough I have been assured by various manufacturers that their products will withstand airgun recoil. My question would have to be, which airgun! An untuned, powerful gun like an RWS350 might not be what they have in mind when they say their products withstand airgun recoil...they might be thinking of some PCP which doesn't have notable recoil.

I am compiling a list of airgun rated scopes that extends to some 30 different manufacturers. I should be done with it soon!

[RedFeather]

On your list, can you also determine which scopes for power levels? I've seen reports on some scopes like the smaller RWS models that are fine on, say, a 34 but are creamed on a 48, etc.

Short answer to this question - no. If the scope is not air gun rated, it can easily become toast, even on a mild springer. Just depends on the scope's internal components such as mounting design and glues. If you aren't sure your scope is good to go, you are taking a chance on losing it. Some scopes that are not air gun rated will hold up well. For example, certain Bushnell Trophy models are reported by owners to withstand the double shock of certain guns over a long period of time. But you can't generalize that to all Trophy scopes, etc. Best to buy an AG scope. That way, if it breaks, you can get a new replacement to try again or sell to fund a better model.

[thebookdoc]

There are specific Bushnell Trophy models rated by the manufacturer for springers...At the same time, one tech that I talked to at Bushnell suggested any scope over 4x would withstand double-recoil. Still, I'd stick with those that have been specifically rated to work on springers.

[Gene_SC]

I think Magnum should have said that a well tuned spinger would probably not break a springer rated scope. That has been my personal experience. Since I tune all my springers before mounting a scope I have never lost but three scopes. That was a Leapers 5th Generation scope, BSA non rated scopes. I attribute the Leapers loss to what Red wrote about a heavy scope being more likely to break under heavy magnum springer recoil conditions. I have stayed clear of the Leapers scopes ever since. But I do know that many air gunners use them and swear by them. The one I had may have just been defective but it did last a year or two. One of the contributing factors of its failure could have been while I had it on my Gamo Extreme.. But because of the weight I changed back over to a BSA springer rated scope.

I realize that many new air gunners have problems with scopes breaking. Fortunately I did not have that problem when I started out with air gunning. I had Charlie Da Tuna to ask...

With that said I started out using springer rated BSA scopes. Ones that I still own today. I tried a couple of the BSA non springer rated scopes but they eventually failed. Next were the springer rated Simmons Pro Air scopes, which are no longer made. Then graduated to the Bushnell Sports, Trophy and Legend scopes. All those were used on medium springer rated air guns. They still are holding up great. Now I have been using the Hawk scopes on my newer springers and gas piston springers. The new Crosman RamQuest is packing a Bushnell Legend scope and is holding up great so far. IMO the Hawk scopes glass is as good as any Bushnell scope I have used.

I am no expert on scopes nor would I suggest any particular glass for someone. And that is because everyone's eyes are different and what may look good to one person may not be right for another.

But I do know that for all the springers I have owned, mangums and regular springers I have only lost three scopes to a springers recoil. I have owned up to a 100 air guns and everyone was scoped. Now I am down to about 45... and all of them are scoped with scopes that I feel are compatible with each springer. I do not own what I call magnum springers any more either.