Airguns legal for small game hunting in New York

[Perry50]

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20100512/SPORTS/5120348/1118/Air-guns-now-legal-for-small-game-hunting

Wow, they'll allow you to shoot game like rabbits, squirrels, ruffed grouse, and even fur bearer species such as fox, coyote, and raccoon as well as varmints like woodchucks with a .177 pellet going as slow as 600 fps. Will a perfect brain shot kill a coyote using a .177 cal airgun shooting 600 FPS?

[Gene_SC]

I am sure there are county and city ordinaces so check your local hunting regs first before you start shooting up all the cridders..

[only1harry]

No it won't.  Probably not even if you shot it at point-blank.  600fps with a 7.9gr .177 pellet is just over 6fpe muzzle energy.  Down range that gets reduced to 4-5fpe and is only enough for small birds out to 35-40yds or squirrel at short distances (10-15yds).  

The 600fps in the new DEC airgun law should have been for .22 & up calibers only.  .177 cal. should have been 800fps minimum (equivelant energy to 600fps in .22) velocity as the original proposed law by the DEC stated.  They then went and changed it to 600fps a few months later when it was passed.  
 
You will need a minimum of 11-12fpe on impact to cleanly kill a coyote with a well placed shot to the brain.

[shadow]

I wouldn't attempt a shot at a Yote with just 600fps. :0 Ed

[Perry50]

So I hope this new law isn't going get some irresponsible people shooting coyotes or raccoons with a 600 FPS .177 airgun just because it's legal.

[only1harry]

I hope you are right.  It would be a shame to see people start shooting fox and coyote with a 6 ft-lb airgun or pistols!  

A .22 airgun doing 600fps is not even appropriate for a coyote, let alone a .177.  For me it's minimum 800fps with .22, or 950-1,000fps with my Diana 350 .177 (it gets up to 1,075 with 7.9gr) or no shot at all.   Funny thing is the only reason I bought the 350 .177 was because of this proposed airgun law which initially stated 800fps minimum velocity.  Then they went ahead and changed it to 600fps.  Hek, my Crosman 66 Powermaster (pumper) does 640fps with 7.9gr CPHP's!  I didn't need to buy an Ultra-Magnum Springer had I known they would change it to 600fps, but I like Diana's 350's so what they hey

[airiscool]

As Harry mentioned, the original proposal had an 800fps limit.

Like Harry did, I was looking at 350's for hunting under the assumption that the original proposed change to the "Definition of a Firearm" to allow Airguns, would pass with the 800fps limit. Then I saw Crosman was coming out with the Trail XL. I prefer a gas ram gun for hunting,  so I got one.

Is the change to a 600fps limit a mistake? Maybe, but not from one perspective, and that is kids being able to hunt.

From some of the wording in the original proposal, and a talk I had with a guy who is in the DEC department that writes up the proposals, I think a major reason for this change to allow airgun hunting is not for the benifit of adult hunters, but to get more young boys, girls, and women interested in hunting.

The numbers of hunters has been steadily declining in NYS for many years. Since most, if not all of the DEC budget comes from the Pitman-Robenson Act tax on hunting supplies, and sale of hunting and fishing licences, their budget has been impacted. They've recently had to impliment a rather big increase in hunting licence fees, which did nothing to slow the decline.

Since Airguns are less noise, recoil, and generally cheaper than powder burners, Airguns are seen by some in Albany as a way to encourage  more new hunters.

I think the last minute change from 800 fps down to 600fps  was simply that, someone in Albany realized that alot of kids and women wouldn't be able to handle an 800fps, or faster, magnum Airgun.

Paul.

[crowpopper]

well IMO  if the hunter doesnt know the diff they should not be in the woods period. I think its a major step foward in NY due to it getting people that otherwise would not have tryed hunting(kids and some women) and my example here is my Mother in law. I got her hooked into airguns the past few months  she now has a modded 2240 with shoulder stock and scope and has basically aquired my P3. she is a small lady and even a disco is too big for her, she never hunted befor due to guns being to big now she wants to go for small game this fall with me because she has a gun she can shoot and shoot well she does.
now my other point here is would you hunt deer or bear with a 17 REM(centerfire) ? no , well if your an ethical hunter who knows anything about hunting anyways and if youd choose to hunt with a 17 centerfire chances are is your also hunting illegalls other ways or just plain unsafe and not smart and should not posess a hunting licence
heres this taken from dec in ny   site
it states a legal firearm for big game is any centerfire rifle with 16 in or longer bbl so it is legal
but my main point is use common sense and dont try to take a yote with a P1 with light pellets and you will do fine

~~~~`
Manner of Taking
It is unlawful to:

•Take big game while the deer or bear is in water.
•Possess a firearm of any description when bowhunting or when accompanying a person bowhunting during special archery seasons.
•Make, set or use a salt lick on land inhabited by deer or bear.
It is unlawful to hunt big game with:

•A firearm or bow aided by any artificial light or a laser that projects a beam toward the target.
•An autoloading firearm with a capacity of more than 6 shells (one which requires that the trigger be pulled separately for each shot), except an autoloading pistol with a barrel length of less than 8 inches.
•A firearm using rimfire ammunition.
•A shotgun of less than 20 gauge or any shotgun loaded with shells other than those carrying a single projectile.
•A bow with a draw weight of 35 lbs or less.
•Arrows with barbed broadheads; arrowheads less than 7/8 inches at the widest point or with less than 2 sharp cutting edges.
•Dogs.
•Aircraft of any kind.
•Bait.

[only1harry]

Paul,
I absolutely agree with you that the goal of the new airgun regulation/inclusion, was to create additional revenue $ for the state.

Are you sure the DEC's budgest and/or funding is only comprised of the tax on hunting supplies and the proceeds from hunting & fishing licenses?  

I find that very strange because hunting & fishing is only a part of what the DEC does.  The NY DEC also regulates and enforces enviornmental laws.  Auto body shops, gas stations, factories, etc. are all inspected and fall under the umbrella and watchful eye of the DEC.  Basically any new construction project, factories, etc. all have some type of functions that are regulated by the DEC.   I believe that they get additional $ from the state (from other tax revenues), or admissions revenue from state parkts.  

Also if the DEC gets tax $ from hunting supplies/apparel/accessories, why not tax the fish that is being sold, or the gas that pump stations sell?  Well actually they do.  The state gets every penny of the sales tax from all the gas sold in NY (the gas station owners have to pay the tax when they purchase the gas wholesale), and the sales tax that is collected everytime you purchase something (except for food basics).  

Well we all know they get us coming and going.. but this latest increase in hunting & fishing license fees was way too high IMO.  If anything it makes it harder for people to purchase a hunting license.  Not that $29 is a lot to me for a small & large game license (combo) but it is certainly a lot more than $20 or 22 I paid last year, percentage wise, and that's without adding the Turkey license and a fishing license, on top of the extra doe permits (at $10 each) that most people want.  When you add all those up, you can easily find yourself paying $70-80 or more.  10-15yrs ago I could have gotten everything for $26.  I am not sure what the Sportsman license was for '09-10 but I think it was something like $75.  Very soon it will be $100 and they will see even a greater decline in license sales.  You really don't do that in the middle of the biggest recession of the last 60yrs.  If they advertised or spread the word that they would not increase, or even decrease the license fees, I bet you a lot more people would have bought licenses.  But today when everyone is watching every nickel and dime, and with more people out of work than ever, raising the fees by 30% did not make any sense at all.  

It is all so that the fat politicians in Albany and elsewhere will not only keep their jobs, but keep eating out at expensive restaurants and expensing everything on taxpayers' money, continue using company cars and taking them home, shopping, on vacations, etc., even down to foremans and low-level supervisiors and non.., and basically keeping all the perks as before.  That is the main motivation behind many of these fee and other tax increases, as well as cutting back funding for schools, special Ed, group-homes, old people's homes, etc. All so they can keep everything as "fat" in their job roles as it was before the recession.  It is really quite sickening.. That is why I hate politicians and always will.  My dad was one for just a few years (pretty high actually - city Comptroller in charge of public works) but quit because of all the corruption and everyone's interest in personal gain and nothing else.

[airiscool]

airiscool - 5/14/2010  7:30 AM

................Since most, if not all  .............

Paul.

A friend of mine is a naturalist, and teacher/guide at a State nature preserve. He told me his paycheck is funded by hunters and fisherman buying licences. Another friend tests soil and water and oversees spraying for the DEC and he said much the same.

During the many Hunter Safety courses I've taken, it's been brought up each time that many NYS tax payers assume they are paying to support hunting and fishing, but the truth is, they aren't unless the buy hunting/fishing gear, or licences.

You may have heard about the big up-roar earlier this year when Gov. Patterson tried to raid the DEC funds (much of which comes from the Federal taxes on hunting/fishing gear) to help close the State's budget gap. Hunters and gun club members raised a stink that he couldn't touch it by law because that money didn't come from the tax payers and he backed down.  

I'm not say all of the DEC's budget comes from R.P.A., and hunting Licences for certain,...  but if it's not all, then it's certainly the major portion of the DEC's budget.  

Paul.

[airiscool]

Harry,
I hear ya ! I spent 9 years in Civil Service at the county level and that got to be too much for me to take.

It wouldn't surprise me if the DEC winds up with less money coming in after charging more !!!  I've seen  other times when taxes/fees go up it discourages use and there can be an even greater loss of income from raising those taxes/fees.

We had that happen here when they opened the new county recycling plant (aka, "the dump"). The tipping fees went from $40.00 to $60.00 a ton to help recoup the costs sooner. Many of the garbage haulers thought it too much and started going to the dump in next county north who was still at $40.00 a ton. We had a new, shiny dump that hardly anyone was  using and they were loosing money. After awhile, the powers that be at our dump realized what was happening, went back to $40.00 a ton and started making money again.

Lesson learned, don't reach up the back of the garbage truck that's laying the golden garbage !!!!  

Paul.