Author Topic: XL vs SS  (Read 13502 times)

Offline ezman604

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XL vs SS
« on: May 28, 2010, 08:54:34 AM »
Alright, got my new Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 delivering tomorrow. Since I’m going out of the area for the weekend, it will be Tuesday before I can lay my grubby hands on it and drool over it. I’m salivating right now just thinking about it.
Anyway, I have a Benjamin Super Streak and some spare parts, like a .22 barrel. I’m having a craftsman make me a shroud for the spare SS barrel and my intention was to mount this SS .22 barrel to my XL1500. Now, Crosman is telling me they will not interchange, that they mount differently. Not to argue with the folks that know, I thought I’d ask the masses here to see if any of you own or have seen both the SS and XL in person. And that this is a fact the barrels are made differently and will not interchange.
Looking at the best pictures I can find, I don’t see any major differences in the exterior layout of the breech block and mounting.



Thanks and let me know your thoughts and ideas. I hate to have to wait 8 months or so for Crosman to release spare parts for these. If no one can tell me for sure, I’ll know Tuesday and will pass it along to you guys. Since the barrels for the SS are available and cheap, it could be an alternative while we await parts to be released for the Trail series.


Happy Shooting!!!!




Dave





Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline airiscool

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2010, 01:29:51 PM »
Dave,

Never been up close with an SS, but I can see in your pictures that the SS breach block seems to stick up higher out of the tube than the Trail XL does. Differance may be where you can't see, but matters to differances in cocking - mainly, the location of the pivot pins, and or, the cocking rods  because of the high cocking force needed for the XL, then again , maybe not ????

You'll know Tuesday when you can compare actuall measurements... instead of guesses.  Hopefully by Tuesday evening, you'll be the expert on SS/Trail parts swaps   !!!! :D

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline wahoowad

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 02:19:25 PM »


the XL I have more closely resembles the raised breach block on the upper picture.





why would you swap out the barrel from the XL?

Beeman R9 .20
FX Whisper .22


Offline ezman604

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2010, 05:26:16 PM »


I want to swap the barrels to get chrony numbers on both calibers. Whichever has the best numbers and most accurate is the caliber I'll keep mounted.



And for the raised block on the SS, I'm hoping this is because the SS has irons and the XL has none. I hope that's the reason anyway.

Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline ezman604

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 06:47:55 PM »


I need to thank TCups again for posting this in the Bargain Gate. Tommy this was a great bargain. As I was heading out of town for the weekend, the mail ran and I was able to put a snatch and grab on my new Trail NP XL1500 on the way out. Got the box opened up and she's a beauty.









So, I was told by Crosman tech guys that the parts (barrels) between my SS and the XL would not interchange. They told me they mounted differently. Hmmmm...I disagree. So, my next step is to really compare. I started disasembling both and placed them side by side.



Benji SS on top of the XL to start with.





Then I seperated the barrel assemblies from the receivers.





All looks the same to me....now a close-up of the breach.





The real test will come early next week when I get the time to put a few rounds across my chrony, change to a .22 barrel and retest. I think Crosman hosed me this time, from what I see. The barrels are virtually identical, just the block is machined a little different on the XL to eliminate the irons.



Pressing onward.



Happy Shooting!!!!



Dave



Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline arbantelope

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 07:44:56 PM »
Looks promising. Nice pics.
Alan - NorCal

Offline Tim40189

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 12:50:30 AM »
Dave,

This opens up some new posibilities for these guns for sure.  I've been waiting on a .177 barrel for my SS for over 2 months from Crosman now.  I wonder if the Trail NP will interchange on the barrels as well???  I talked with Joeblow a few  weeks ago and he gave me a little advice on the SS and I put a new 350 Magnum spring in my SS today and it made a big difference in the gun, I really like it and am starting to see the gun come around on the accuracy I was hoping for from the start.  My next project on the SS is going to be making a new custom piston for the gun to allow the use of a top hat in it to adjust the weight and try to tame the beast a little more.  I really like the looks and feel of the guns, have learned from Bob and Gene that power is not all it's cracked up to be and that accuracy is a far greater asset to have in an air rifle.  I don't mind shooting at 800 fps and hitting everything I shoot at as opposed to shooting 900 fps and can't hit the broad side of the barn.  Keep us posted on the changes and discoveries you make with these two as you try to cross-breed them.  Looks like you have some interesting new projects in the works and I'll really be looking forward to hearing about your successes on them.  Have a great holiday weekend....brought to us all by the Veterans of the United States Military Service.  Thank you one and all.  God Bless.

Tim

Offline ezman604

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 06:11:06 AM »
The XL appears to be the same furniture and receiver as the SS. From hearing others, the NP metal will not fit into the XL or SS wood so I'd say it's a different power plant too. But, I can't see a complete retooling by Crosman and would GUESS the barrels would interchange on those too. Wish I had a NP to disassemble and see. If anyone has tried, let us know.
Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline airiscool

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 08:36:16 AM »
"...................I wonder if the Trail NP will interchange on the barrels as well???  .................."

I think the Trail NP uses a smaller diameter seal than the Trail NPXL / SS, so I assume the compression tube is likewise smaller diameter. However, the break block jaws may be machined the same on both tubes to accept  the same breach block ???? Only one way to know for sure .....

Dave.
Those two sure look like they'd swap. Interested to see/hear if they do.

BTW, how would you compare the noise level of the fully shrouded Trail to the muzzle break of the SS ?

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.

Offline ezman604

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 10:56:32 AM »


Paul, I'm curious to see if an NP barrel is the same also. I'm about 99% sure the SS barrel will swap no problem. We just got back from a shooting session. Only had a few minutes before the roaming thunderstorms started moving in here. As far as noise, the XL is definately quieter than the SS. But, it's a different type of quiet. It's the spring noise versus the ram cycling. Not sure if the shrouded barrel actually contributes as much to the noise factor as you would think.



Cocking the two is definately different. The XLhas a harder and more consistant pull. But it's not a bother and I wouldn't pay any attention to it if I weren't shooting both guns at the same session. I haven't chronied it but itzeroed and shot great with Beeman CrowMagnum 8.8gr exceptionally well.Next week I hope to get the time to set up the chrony, fire several different rounds through the .177 barrel, swap out to the SS .22 barrel and retest. I have a fantastic looking shroud coming in from a GTA Forum artisan. I'll dress out the .22 barrel and hope to keep it mounted on the XL. May move my SS back to .177 mode.



More testing on the way.



Here's a fewpicswhere my son-in-law, grandson and I shot at a few targets a little while ago.







Son-in-law and Benji SS.





Son-in-law with XL1500.





Also found out my newly dressed up Leapers 6-24x40 SF scope on my SS will be going back AGAIN. SF will not work at all.



Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline jay morgan

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 05:21:03 PM »
What did G-Son think of his new toy you built him?an if you do swap SS back to .177 are you interrested in selling .22 barrell?
N.R.A.(endowment),G.O.A.(life), N.R.A. trainer for,c.c.w.,all firearms &reloading /\" NO FREEMAN SHALL EVER BE DEBARRED THE USE OF ARM\'S\"(Thomas Jefferson)

Offline ezman604

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 06:01:46 PM »


We had a blast and he had a fit over his new gun. He kept asking if he could keep it here but is Dad and Mom would rather I took it back home. Not a problem, he can always look forward to shooting with me every visit.



As far as the barrels, I set my Benji's up to have both calibers for both of them. I have one set for each of them, no spares. They are actually pretty cheap through Crosman, only about $15 + $4.95 shipping. If they have them in stock, you can get it within a week. If they backorder, it could take 30-60 days.

Crosman/Revelation 760 PumpMaster (Vintage 1967)
Powerline 1000S .177 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Super Streak .177/.22 (semi-tuned by me)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1500 (bone stock)
Benjamin Trail NP XL1100 (project gun)
TF89 .22 (tuned by Gene)
Winchester 1000WS .177 (semi-tuned by muwah)
QB57 (l

Offline jay morgan

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2010, 07:15:14 PM »
WOW Dave that is cheap,Thank's for info. ,That's to bad for G-Boy bet it kind of made him sad,but all the more reason to come an stay with you more often.any red blooded boy would of gone nutzo on that gun,just looked way to cool for a young man.OH BENJI SS should be here in a few day's, I'll let you all know & will pester ya for more info.LOL. Keep us informed on your project here.STAY SAFE
N.R.A.(endowment),G.O.A.(life), N.R.A. trainer for,c.c.w.,all firearms &reloading /\" NO FREEMAN SHALL EVER BE DEBARRED THE USE OF ARM\'S\"(Thomas Jefferson)

Offline uncle paulie

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Re: XL vs SS
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 03:54:31 AM »
Looking at the photo's......I was wondering if your son cleared the bed rail of the truck with his shot?  Seems a bit too close for comfort to me. Sure these things are a blast to play with, but I think we all need to remember just how powerful these new toys are. Forget the damage to the truck, but the ricochet can do a whole bunch of damage as well. The photo shows a situation that is unsafe on so many levels, probably the worst is that your grandson is in front of the firing line.

I think a great way for you to get your grandson into the sport would be to time his next visit with a hunter safety course which the three of you could attend.  It would add another dimension to the experience for all of you. I also think a youngsters first few sessions with firearms be at an actual range where they would become familiar with safe range practices. This would set the stage for many years of safe, healthy shooting.

Didn't mean to scold..... God knows I've done so many really stupid things in my life and will probably do a few more; but I think safety is probably the most important thing we need to learn and remember when we go out to play. Hey, maybe it would be a good idea if some of us old farts who took the safety course 40 or 50 years ago took a refresher- Just to be on the safe side!

PS-  A couple of saw horses at different heights would make some great, portable rests which could be brought to the site. Of course, you'd want to take them out of the truck for use!!!LOL
pv

Offline airiscool

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RE: XL vs SS
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 06:10:32 AM »
Dave,
Great to see shooting sport being passed down in the family. Your Grandson must have been realy bummed out when he heard his new shooter has to stay at Grampa's. I know I would. :D  

I whole heartedly agree with Uncle Paulie, even to the point that Hunter safety courses are not just for Hunters, but anyone who will be spending time around firearms should also take the course. Most of the hunting accidents in NYS involve the "Old Farts" as Uncle Paulie calls 'em (I resemble that remark :D ), - very few involve  new hunters. Proof that  he's right in that  older shooter need to brush up on safety  !!!!!!

I took my first Hunter safety course way back in the mid '60's and again with my two oldest daughters when they turned 12 and wanted to try hunting. Then again with the Girl Friend when  her Son turned 12 and they both wanted to hunt . The review didn't hurt at all, and I learned something new each time.

Paul.
Benji Trail NPXL 1100, Gamo .22 Whisper, Crosman 760 Pumpmaster, Crosman 66 Powermaster, Crosman .22 revolver, Daisy model 102, Daisy early Model 25.