Author Topic: Hello; which Gamo???  (Read 12239 times)

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Hello; which Gamo???
« on: June 16, 2007, 06:27:41 AM »
Hi everyone,

I have a few questions, a bit of background, and some general babbling :)

I am interested in getting an air gun as I recently become the proud owner of a feathered pest problem.

I jumped on the net and was looking at getting a Daisy 880. This was the model my father bought me back in the 70's. We used to go to the YMCA once a week to shoot it. The Y provided Crossman 760's, so I thought I was the cat's meow with my own 880!!! I was very saddened to see that they way cheapened the 880 up since the 70's from reviews I have read of the current model. My father is gone, the 70's 880 is gone and I was really wanting one to serve my current needs as well as for the nostalgia. I am not gonna buy a piece of crap for nostalgia reasons.

My next step was to check out what else is available out in the air gun world. I have pretty much decided on a Gamo.

I am kinda of in limbo on which one.

Of course I like the price of the Big Cat and the Shadow, they both seem to have a decent amount of power, and reviews of the Shadow seem to be good.
    Q1. I couldn't really see much of a difference between the Shadow and Big Cat other than cocking effort and scope/sights set up. Are there other differences I am missing?

I see Gamo is coming out with the Whisper. Up to 52% quieter... very nice feature for my neighborhood. Good power at 1000fps but Pyramyd won't have them until August '07. I've already gotten past my innate "I want it NOW" stage, but don't really want to wait until August for an air gun either. And no, at this point I am not going to get two air guns :). Pyramyd is within 10 miles form my house and that is why I am wanting to go with them, but that is not an absolute neccessity. I found three websites saying the Whisper is due in August, but Midway shows them being available 06-23-2007. I am kind of at unease with that, because the other three are saying August.
Q2: Is Midway a reputable company?
Q3: Does Gamo live up to it's stated deliver/release dates?
Q4: Any reason why Midway would have these 6 weeks before the other distributors?


As stated earlier, my initial reasons for an air gun is for pest control. As I have been romping around the net looking at air gun info, I am thinking I may very well get into hunting a bit as well. An air gun will be great as well due to the fact that shooting real weapons is getting very costly for the ammo. Please accept my apologies for using the term real weapons (indicating that an air gun is not a real weapon). I do not know the proper terminology/way to state that without offending.

So back to the point; Maybe a CFX in .22??? Definitely more than I need for my current pest issue, but should I choose to go hunting with it, I would think the .22 would be a great choice... yes? How big of a creature can be hunted with the CFX in .22?

So here I am with 3.5 air guns I am looking at:

1. The Big Cat
2. The Shadow
3. The CFX .22
3.5 The Whisper

Initially, I am going to stick with whatever sighting system comes stock on the air gun. Down the road I would like to get a scope or better scope if the model I choose comes with one already.

Q5: Can I use a .22 rim fire scope on an air gun?
Q6: What are good rings to use (manufacturer and model variants) that will also let me use the sights if the air gun model I choose has sights?


Of course any info at all that is offered beyond my questions as well as answers to my specific questions is greatly appreciated.

Thank you :)

Offline Skip

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Re: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 07:45:08 AM »
Rags, first welcome to GTA . I’m not any kind of expert. I do have a shadow in .177 and I found it works well for pests and I’m very happy with it since I got good trigger and tune.
You mentioned you might hunt with this gun so I would go with a .22 cal. I personally am looking hard at the CFX .22. then adding a CDT trigger. Just my two cents. There are members here with a lot more experience that I but a bunch of them are at the SC shoot out this weekend. One word of warning I found out the hard way one gun won’t be enough.  
  Skip

Offline Big_Bill

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 09:30:12 AM »


Hello Ayche,



WELCOME to the GTA, "A GREAT PLACE TO BE" !!!



We have many revues on the Shadow, and other than the "bad Gamo trigger", I haven't read anything bad about it. The only thing you need is a GRT-III, CDT trigger for her to make her a sweet shooting rifle ! I have one on my 890S Gamo, and it made here a fun shooting baby for me. search forreviews on both here in the GTA.



Both models look to be almost the same, the Big Cat being new, has no information on it, it looks like it has a shrouded barrel and no sights on it.



The Shadow has two color thru glow sights, and a plane steelbarrel The specs. are the same on both air rifles, indicating the same parts are on the insides. The CFX is in the same class of 1000- fps air rifles only it is an under-lever cocking type, and comes with sights on it. For more information I suggest visiting our Library for information on scopes and mounting systems, these tend to be personal preference items, as well as air rifles. .22 powder scopes are not normally strong enough for the double recoil of the springer type air rifle, you can check to see if your scope is recommended for air rifles.



So Ayche, it looks like it's up to your feeling on the looks and sights on the Shadow and CFX or Big Cat.



Feel free to ask any other questions that my arise.

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Offline vinceb

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Gamo has a habit...
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 10:13:10 AM »
...of repackaging the (basically) same innards with different stocks and sights. In the "old" days, the Shadow, 220, 440, and 890 all used the same action.

Right now, one of the best deals going has to be this:

http://natchezss.com/category.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=GN&category=176&subCategory=176&catLevel=1&prodID=GN611005654

This is the same gun as the "890 S" that pyramidair shows for $190... except the 440 has open sights, which the 890 and many Gamo's no longer have. It's a lot easier to put a scope on a gun that doesn't come with one than it is to put open sights on a gun that doesn't have them... personally, I never buy a gun that doesn't have open sights. Although frankly, the Shadow rear sight is actually better than the one on the 440 (or CFX, for that matter).

Please note - the "1200 fps" Big Cat is only "1200 fps" with special, lightweight "PBA" ammo. If you do NOT want noise, don't use that ammo! It goes supersonic, wich is LOUD. The gun is not any more powerful than the old "1000 fps" Shadow/Hunter series. Ya gotta be careful about Gamo's velocity figures.

I imagine that your proximity to pyramidair makes online ordering less attractive (no shipping, for one thing). The scope that comes with the Big Cat is a fairly cheap scope - Walmart sells the better Powerline 3-9x32 scope (with the same cheap mounts) for about $28.


Offline shadow

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 10:16:47 AM »
Welcome Ayche, Looking for a shooter hmmm well the Gamo Shadow is a good shooter for target and small varment's. I have the ShadowSport .177 and the CFX.22 and being one of the hunting Moderators on the forum I hunt with all of my babies. :) I suggest if you are going Gamo, get a trigger for her from CDT, the stock trigger is a chore and takes some getting used to. The CFX in the .22 is a very good hunting airgun, despite the trigger. As with any spinger pellet selection is a plus, find out what she likes to shoot and go from there. Quality Airgun,loose hold, their finicky, pellet selection and shot placement is a must for taking game if you decide to hunt. Again, welcome and we have many great fellow members here that will jump in and give some sound advice. Ed
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline PeakChick

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 10:39:56 AM »
All the Gamo guns you mentioned will all have about the same power level, they all pretty much use the same power plant. They all will take care of any feathered pest problem.

In my opinion (humble at that), the CFX is the best of the bunch. If you get it in .22 you will be able to hunt slighty larger game, or pests than with the ,177s.

I have a CFX in .177 and it is a suberb gun for the money, with the caveat of the long, creepy Gamo trigger, which they all have. My CFX is as out of the box, completely stock and is very shootable and very accurate with either Gamo Hunters or BSA Wolverines (JSBs), pretty much tear the 10 ring out @ 10m.

As mentioned previously, the 1200fps claim is with the very light, non-lead alloy PBA pellet. They all claim 1000fps with lead pellet and will all get somewhere near there, depending on pellet selection. the .22 will make somwhere between 700-850 fps depending on pellet.

Spend the few extra bucks and get a CFX, either .22 or .177...........you'll be happy you did.
The current stable, (arsenal, quiver?): BSA Lightning XL .177, BSA Sportsman HV .22, BSA Ultra .177, CZ634 .177, Daystate Harrier X .177, TAU 200 Senior .177, HW 97 .177, HW 50s .177, HW 30 .177, RWS 92 .177, Gamo 126 MC Super, Gamo Big Cat .177, AR2078A, QB78 .177, Quest 1000 .177, Beeman SS650 .177., Beeman P17 .177.
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Offline daved

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2007, 03:27:48 PM »
Hey, Ayche, welcome to the airgun nut house :-)!  I'll run through your questions in order, the add any additional info I think might help.
1. Same action and power, far as I know the Big Cat is about the same as the current Shadow Sport, has a polymer barrel with sleeve.  Not sure why the cocking effort is different.
2. Midway is a very reputable company, I bought my first adult air rifle, a CFX, from them, as well as an RWS 350.
3. Doubtful, GamoUSA does what they want, when they want.  They told us last year, no more Gamo .22 air rifles.  Then all of a sudden, we have the CFX, a gun NEVER imported into the US in .22, available from Pyramyd.  Go figure!
4.  Not a clue.
5.  Depends on the brand, model, and gun.  Most .22 scopes are parallax free at 50 yards, even if the scope will handle the air rifle recoil, that's a strech for best accuracy.  Most airgunners use adjustable objective scopes that are air gun rated.  Pick your price point, there are probably at least a half dozen choices available.  
6.  Not sure about this, I think Accushot by Leapers has see through mounts for 11 mm rails.  They make a good mount at a good price.  Check their web site, Leapers.com, for more info.  That's the only possible see through I can think of.  Other good mounts are BKLs, Beeman, and B-Square, all much more expensive.

Of the rifles you are considering, I'd throw the Whisper out of consideration, in my opinion it's a marketing gimmick.  Springers just aren't that noisy, and a shroud, baffle, whatever you want to call it just isn't going to make that much difference.  They can seem really loud when you shoot them, but stand back 10 or 15 yards, and you'll see what I mean.

The Big Cat I have no experience with.  The Shadow (old Shadow 1000, not new Shadow Sport) I've shot a lot, excellent rifle.  Light, accurate, powerful, and not too hold sensitive.  The CFX is also an excellent rifle, that was my first in .177, and I just got one in .22.  Also light, accurate, and powerful, and not hold sensitive at all.  For a beginner, it's perhaps one of the easiest springers to get started with.  Because of the fixed barrel, some consider the CFX more accurate than the Shadow, if so, the difference is miniscule.  The Shadow may have a slight edge in power, again the diff is tiny.  The only downside to the CFX is the rotary breech, it can make loading a bit of a hassle until you figure out a technique that works for you.  You also need to think about scope length, too long will get in the way of loading.  I found 14 .5" to be max, depending on eye relief, shorter being better.  I'd say if you're primary use is hunting, get the Shadow.  A fast second shot is much easier with a break barrel.  For targets, especially if you're lazy like me and shoot off a bench, I'd go for the CFX.  

For caliber, a general rule of thumb is .177 for feathers, .22 for fur.  That's VERY general, check out the Hunting gate if you haven't already.  Look for posts by Shadow and/or LongIslandHunter.  I'm pretty sure either of those two could hunt elephants with their air rifles, if they wanted to :-)!  Shot placement is a lot more important than caliber, that and knowing the capability of you and your rifle.  Do your part, and either one will be more than adequate for squirrel size game out to 40 yards or so.  If you're thinking racoon size, you might want to concentrate on .22, and still cut the range down.  Jeff and Ed, do you guys agree, or am I out to lunch again :-)?  You won't see that much increase in power between a .177 and a .22 CFX.  The .177 will be around 14 fpe, the .22 maybe 17 or so.  To get big numbers, you either need a magnum springer like the RWS 350, or a PCP.  .177 is flatter shooting, and there are a lot more choices in pellets.  .22 gets you a little more power, a loopier trajectory, and not so many pellet choices.

One last thing.  Both the CFX and Shadow have synthetic stocks with hollow butts.  Adding some weight to the butt can really improve both the balance and general shootability of either one.  I like to put a pound of Duct Seal in mine.  In case you're not familiar with it, Duct Seal is used by electricians to seal electrical raceways, it's kind of like sticky modeling clay.  Most any big box store will handle it.  If you prefer a wood stock, go with Vinces' suggestion, the Hunter 440 is a steal at that price, and it also shares the same powerplant as the Shadow and CFX.  For the price, that's probably the best deal around right now.  You still need a scope, but the scopes on the combos aren't that great, you'd probably be better off buying glass seperately.  The CFX .22 is currently only available as a combo with a fixed 4x scope.  Not a bad scope, but no where near as much glass as one of these can use.  If you go Gamo, make sure you order a trigger from Charlie Da Tuna.  Best $32 you'll spend on damn near anything!

Guess that's it for now, sorry if I got too long winded, I tend to do that occasionally ( Dano, I heard that!).  If you have any more questions, you know where to come.  Good luck, and keep us posted.

Dave

Offline shadow

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2007, 11:12:53 PM »
Yup Dave, your right on the money. :) If you go with the .22 get alittle closer to your game and use the right pellet for the job, I'm throwing Predators through my CFX.22  and some Gamo Hunters. You can use .177's for larger game and to reach out further and get them but as said, shot placement is a must!.Ed
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline r1derbike

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 03:20:54 AM »
Which Gamo? Both.  Really.  Was so impressed with the .177, I ordered the .22 the same day.  Now, I'm covered for small/medium sized pests.

Charles
Lead Launchers: 30 Year Old Daisy .177 Cal. Model 880 Pumper (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Gamo CFX .22 Cal. Springer with GRT III Trigger (BSA 4X32 Scope), Gamo CFX .177 Cal. Combo Springer (BSA 2-7X32 AO Scope), Gamo R-77 .177 Cal. CO2 Combat Pistol (Laser Sight), Umarex/Beretta .177 Cal. CX4 Storm CO2 Bullpup (Walther PS-22 Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light), Chinese QB-57 .22 Cal. Takedown Springer (BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope & Dorcy Night Light),  Chinese Tech-Force S2-1 .177 Cal. Springer Pistol (Boat Anchor...), Chinese Tech-Force Contender Model 89 .22 Cal. Springer (BSA Laser & Tactical Light, CenterPoint 4-16X40 Illum. Ret. Mil. Dot Scope), Crosman 1377 .177 Cal. Pumper Pistol (1399 stock, BSA 3022SB Red Dot Scope), Daisy Powerline 717 .177 Cal. Single-Pump Pistol (Open Sights).

Offline shadow

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2007, 04:56:44 AM »
GREAT! 8) Ed
I airgun hunt therefore I am... };)  {SHADOWS Tunes & Camo}  airguncamo@yahoo.com

Offline DanoInTx

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He only gets long winded........
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2007, 05:59:31 AM »
.....when he types.  I have no experience with him over the phone, but suspect he is just as long winded.
Dan

Current shooters: Beeman HW97K .177 with Hawke Eclipse 4x16x50SFAO and Steve C. stock, Beeman R9 .177 with Hawke Airmax 4-12x40AO and Gene\'s Midas touch, Air Arms S200 with Bushnell Banner 6x24x40AO Rowan brass bling and Steve C. custom stock, BAM B25, BAM B40 .177 with BSA 3x12x44AO, Benjamin Marauder .22, Benjamin 397 pumper.

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Air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzz, air gunzzzzzzz!!!  ...You will feel better\" T.E.C.2008

Offline JMG

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RE: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2007, 06:28:55 AM »


I know I might make a lot of the gamo owners out there a little mad but... here it goes anyways. I owned a Big Cat for a little bit and then finally returned it to Walmart. I have shot a few of the Gamo's and all of them except for the CFX were guns that I just dont care for out of the box. And even the CFX outta the box wasnt too much to my liking. I think Gamo makes a terrific gun for out of the box tuning. Every single person that has written a review on a gamo gun has talked about the twanginess of the gun out of the box and then the crummy trigger. And then all of them that hang onto the gun buy more parts and tune them themselves or ship them off to a pro tuner like CharlieDaTuna. I guess my point is ... if you are looking for a good gun out of the box that you wont have to mess with my opinion is steer clear of the Gamo's. On the other hand.... if you are wanting to get into the inner workings of airguns or you want your outta the box gun tuned right off the bat to get rid of the inadequacies send it off toa tuner. As far as the Big Cat goes... it was an ok gun but I just couldnt fall in love with it. I already had a few guns I was working on already and I really just wanted something I could shoot. Now please all you fellow members and friends hehe... dont hate me for being hinest. And of course this is just my opinion and everyone has one of those right? In the 100-200 dollar range of the Big Cats, shadow's, 220's,440's and so on and so forth I think a B-26 from Sprtsmanstarget would do well right out of the box. My B26-2 is still working on outta the box trim other than a cutoff cheek surgery I had to perform on it to mount a scope on it the way I wanted to, but that all could have been avoided by getting the regular stocked B26. We have some very knowledgable people here on this forumthat do wonders with these Gamo's. So my thinking is....decide if you want a gun that is good out of the box... or a gun that is good after it has been messed with and tuned up. Again this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.



John

Ok I shoot....maybe not well but I do shoot hehe, B26-2.177, X3-B3-2 .177, RWS 34 .177, QB78 Deluxe .177, CR 1322 Medalist
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Re: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2007, 06:41:00 AM »
Thanks for all the input :) I was aware that the 1200fps Gamo states is not for the standard pellets. I also planned to get Bob's GRT-III before I got to GTA. It's good to know that with almost everyone replying to get CDT trigger, it HAS to be worthwhile.

Haa haa haa Skip, I kind of figured one won't be enough, that's why I stated for now, getting two isn't going to happen.

I have been to the library before posting Bill. I read a few things, but my brain was fried and will definately go back and read up on scopes as you recommended, thanks.

I'm with you Bill to an extent; I way prefer scopes with open sights still being able to be used, but I am not die hard about it. It's just good insurance if something goes awry with a scope, you have the sights as an option. I am somewhat knowledgeable in the powder realm and in reference to you saying it's a lot harder to add sights than a scope, I am not aware of anyone adding sights to a rifle. Of course that isn't to say it hasn't happended as I'm am almost certain it has. As for me not having shipping if I go with Pyramyd, that isn't so. They have no storefront and you can only pick up ordered stuff on two days of the week for 4 hours each day. I work 12 hour days and can't make it during their times. I just like to keep my purchases local if possible is why I'd like to go with them. Another thing is state sales tax would offset the shipping if I go with them. I'll send them an e-mail to see if I can arrange another pick up time.

Peakchick, have you had other Gamo's besides the CFX? The reason I ask is because you stated I'd be happy for spending the extra $$$ on the CFX. From the average Joe reviews at http://www.reviewcentre.com , the CFX edges out the other Gamo's I have been looking at. That's not to say that the others had bad review ratings though. From what you and Dave had stated, I am leaning toward the CFX. I am left handed, would that be a problem with the breech loading? I am pretty adept at shooting powder pistols and rifles that are not ambidextrous, but that would be a consideration. On the same note, I am also somewhat ambidextrous.

Is loading the CFX like loading a pellet into the Daisy 880; get it in the slot and then slide the bolt forward? Where with the break barrel you just break the barrel and place the pellet in the barrel end and close, cock, and fire?

Dave, thanks for the tip about the Duct Seal. I prefer synthetic over wood as I am kinda Ogrish and ham fisted in things. The Duct Seal is not permanent so it can be played with for optimum results in regards to adding or removing some; as well as repositioning if needed. Your post was not long winded at all for me. It was great info you shared to help me out. In the past I was an admin for 5 years at a  high traffic forum, and I know answering the same newbie questions over and over gets old for the veterans. Thank you once again.

Shadow, what kind of distance will a .177 go effectively to get let's say a rabbit versus a .22? A .177 has a flatter trajectory correct?

After reading all the replies, I guess what it comes down to is that for the most part, it simply depends on what features I want, as all the Gamo's I am looking at have the same set up other than the breech loading of the CFX, and all are somewhat the same as far as internals.

What I suppose the question I need to answer now is .117 or .22


Is Pyramyd the only place to get the .22 CFX?.








Offline daved

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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2007, 06:42:35 AM »
Actually, John makes a good point, and it's one I think a lot of us overlook because we're too close to the issue.  But it actually goes beyond the Gamos, you'll see a lot of the same comments about R-9s and some of the other high end guns.  At the moment, I have 2 Russian, 1 Chinese, 1 Spanish, and 1 German gun.  They're all at least a little twangy, I think it's the nature of the beast.  Only way I know to completely avoid the problem is get a gun that doesn't have a spring.  You pays your money and you take your chances, seems most of us that shoot springers eventually become springer mechanics, and I think that's part of the fun.  And part of the reason most of us also have multiple guns, each one has something a little different to offer.  Anyway, I can hear Dano in the background going "there he goes again", so I'll go away now.  Later!

Dave

Offline daved

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Re: Hello; which Gamo???
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2007, 06:52:43 AM »
Hey, Howard, you're welcome.  Being left handed shouldn't make any difference with the CFX, it's not like a rifle bolt.  The stock and safety work for either, too.  There is no bolt on the CFX, the rotary breech is a cylinder just behind the barrel.  There is a groove that helps guide the pellet into the chamber, when you rotate it closed, the transfer port lines up with the barrel.  The rear of the rotary is also the front of the compression chamber.  Hope that's clear enough, if not, let me know and I'll try to take some pix.  Far as I know, Pyramyd is the only place that has the .22 CFX, and I did look, I was hoping I could find one without the scope.  I like the Duct Seal for exactly the reasons you mentioned, but others have used other things.  Later.

Dave