Hollow Points

[NMCA_Ron]

I recently picked up my first tin of RWS Super H hollow point pellets (.177 cal) at Cabela's in Kansas City. They look to be a nicely made pellet and very consistent in appearance. I decided to give them a try in my new Hunter 440.

My 440 is equipped with a BSA 3-12 x 44 scope and I was set up at a distance of 20 yards from the target. I had a dickens of a time getting the rifle to shoot groups of 5 shots smaller than 1-1/2" inches! My buddy suggested I try the pellets I normally use; Crosman Premier Hollow Points. The next 3 groups were much tighter, between 1/2" and 3/4". Just for giggles, I broke out my trusty S1K an using the Crosman pellets it is accustomed to, I shot 3 groups of 5 pellets each within 1/2". We ran out of time or I would have tried the S1K with the RWS pellets to achieve a reference point.

Granted, I just recently purchased the 440 and I only have about 150-200 shots through it, but is it normal to have this much difference in consistency between pellets? Can I expect to see more consistency with the RWS Super H pellets after my 440 has had some time to break in? I really like the way the Super H expands compared to the Crosman Premier and I was hoping to use them.

Ron

[USNCop]

I'm assuming you have checked all screws and cleaned the barrel so moving along to other things.
I would think your rifle would either like them or not at this point but I could be wrong.
My AG's didn't seem to change preferrence after break-in.
I use the RWS Super-H Points myself in my QB57, Beeman Bearcub carbine (Webley Vulcan MkIII)
I will test them next in my Crosman 1377 and BAM B26 .22

They are light weight and that could be the problem.

I'm also wondering if Bob could jump in and let us know if there is a difference in the rifling that could cause it?

[longislandhunter]

Hi Ron,

I absolutely love the .22 caliber RWS Super Hollow Points and they perform fantastic in almost every one of my guns, but the .177 version are a different story,,,, at least for me.  

After having such great success with the .22 cal RWS  SHP's, both target shooting and hunting, I decided to order a couple of tins of the .177 pellets.  I figured if the .22 pellets were so good then the .177 must be just as good.  I couldn't have been more wrong.....

The .177 SHP's just wouldn't group well at all in any rifle I tried them in.  I finally gave up on them and the tins I bought are still sitting on my pellet shelf.  I think the problem is that they are simply to light.  

Jeff

[daved]

I haven't tried them in .22, but otherwise, I'm with Jeff on these.  I could NOT get them to group, and I tried them in 3 different rifles, a Gamo CFX, a Beeman HW 77, and a Talon SS.  All the above shoot Crow Magnums at least acceptably out to 30 yards, with acceptable being defined as 1" or less at 30 yards.  Good luck.

Dave

[NMCA_Ron]

Jeff,

That is what I found when I tried them in my S1K last night. I guess I will stick with what works for me (Crosman Premier Hollow Points) and get back to eradicating vermin in the back yard.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input.

Ron

[NMCA_Ron]

Just an update...

I switched back to the Crosman Premier Hollow Points and my groups at 20 yards were well under 1", some as small as a dime for 5 shots. I am happy and all is right with the world as I bagged 2 more nut munchers last night with my 440. It just goes to show, each gun is going to have its own favorite pellet.

Ron

[CharlieDaTuna]

I don't think there is anyone that has a factual answer to that. I've never been able to determine exactly why different guns accept one pellet over another but in my opinion for what it's worth,  it is a combination of several things. First, the guns are not precision machined and then the fact that most pellets being less than perfect not only from manufacturer to manufacturer but tin to tin.

 I believe that it revolves around the rifling, the crown, the choke (if it has one) the throat of the breech and how the pellet fits and possibly the harmonics of the barrel. I also believe that it can be any of the above...or.... a combination of any or all of the above to some degree.

Then the one other thing that plays a big part is velocity consistency, especially when it come to the vertically plane but can also play a role in the horizontal plane as well.

A few years ago there were a couple of the guys playing with the harmonics, both dampening as well as changing and found that it did play a part in consistency and accuracy to some degree. I never kept up or even played with it because of all the variables involved with weights and/or materials  and every gun being so different that a standard could never be applied.

Aslo, you hear one of the troops saying that their gun was shooting just fine and good groups and then all of a sudden a change. Quite often, while using the same pellet, just opened a new tin. If it was not made in the same run with the same die, it can make a big difference sometimes but often not thought about.

[r1derbike]

Charlie, I've got a question that has been nagging at me, for quite some time.  I've noticed skirt deformation on all brands of pellets, and sort the goodies from the baddies, but skirt diameter varies.  Some pellets nearly fall into the breech, and others have larger skirt diameters, requiring a stiff fingernail push to seat.

Now the question; would a skirt former be of benefit here, to make the skirt slightly larger, then use the other end of the former to "push" the pellet into the breech of the gun?

I know this is getting into obsessive-compulsive behavior traits, but when I have a squirrel (munching my shingles, no less!) in the cross-hairs, I want every shot to count!

Charles

r1derbike - 9/17/2007  11:17 PM

Charlie, I've got a question that has been nagging at me, for quite some time.  I've noticed skirt deformation on all brands of pellets, and sort the goodies from the baddies, but skirt diameter varies.  Some pellets nearly fall into the breech, and others have larger skirt diameters, requiring a stiff fingernail push to seat.

Now the question; would a skirt former be of benefit here, to make the skirt slightly larger, then use the other end of the former to "push" the pellet into the breech of the gun?

I know this is getting into obsessive-compulsive behavior traits, but when I have a squirrel (munching my shingles, no less!) in the cross-hairs, I want every shot to count!

Charles

FWIW, I have noticed that some pellets have terribly fragile skirts that are almost insanely easy to mangle, while there are others that really hold up well.
JSB Exacts, in my opinion, are far and away the easiest to deform, even though they are wonderful shooters.
Two others that mangle badly (although these do NOT shoot well, regardless) are Beeman Silver Ace and Beeman Silver Arrow.
The pellets that really stand up well are Beeman Ram Jet, Beeman Kodiak/H&N Baracuda, RWS Super H-Point, RWS Superdome, all Crosman Premier, JSB Predator Polymer Tip, and all Gamo.
Beeman used to (and I think still does) sell a little gadget called a PellSeat, that was used to gently form pellet skirts to the chamber once they were loaded.
Check that out to see if that might serve your purposes.

[r1derbike]

That's exactly what I need! Thanks!

Charles

[Black Mamba]

I too have found that RWS hollow Points work well in my .22's but NOT my .177's.

Like day and night really.

However, when it comes to Crosman HP's, the work well (* consider that "hunting" well *) in all my guns.