Author Topic: are you up for a dose of reality? How accurate is your airgun in your hands in the field? try this..  (Read 8171 times)

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I test my "in the field" accuracy by wether the squirrel falls dead or not. : )


Offline Gene_SC

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Love your taste of reality...:) That works for me too... LOL

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin

  • Guest
Indeed.

Fortunately I didn't need to buy the perfect airgun powerplant for all situations, I only needed to buy the perfect one for me.







  • Guest
yes but the gas powered rifle would have dropped the squirrel 0.28 seconds faster when resting on your left knee in 72 deg weather on Tuesdays.

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Quote
Youkilis - 7/27/2006  6:21 AM

yes but the gas powered rifle would have dropped the squirrel 0.28 seconds faster when resting on your left knee in 72 deg weather on Tuesdays.


LOL!!  :D

  • Guest
RE: Springers have built-in shortcomings....
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 07:54:41 AM »
delicate valves...I have several gas guns(pumpers,co2 and pcp )that have not given trouble in 20 years of use
expense....my pcp setup cost $75(garage sale steel tank$5,new hydro,$35,paintball filler yoke,$45) my bulk co2 setup was even less.
what magazines?
velocity variation...as litttle as +/- 3 fps over 80 shots(113)or +/-  5 fps over 100 shots(debounced 397) or +/- 12 fps over 50 shots(titan pcp) many springers  can't hold +/- 10 fps over a string of 25 if the first shos from a cold gun are included
rimmies aren't airguns

  • Guest
Re: We'll have to agree to disagree.......
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 08:04:03 AM »
so how do you determine where that "one shot group" is going to go? Shoot paper,I would expect...All my one shot groups are perfect too,nice and round,and small too... LOL
I guess in tall grass with no trees,you have to stand,and LOTS of practice would make you good, changes in poi would not be such an issue.Luckily,I can sit or rest an arm on a tree much of the time,so that's how I practice,and shoot.
Few of us have had pro coaching, or hours a day to practice,so we need a litle extra help from our equipment.

  • Guest
"my pcp setup cost $75(garage sale steel tank$5,new hydro,$35,paintball filler yoke,$45) my bulk co2 setup was even less."

All of which is more than zero. I don't want a scuba tank in my garage or my car.  

As far as velocity variation...what are you hunting that you take 80 shots, 100 shots, or 50 shots?  Either your resident populations of rabbits/squirrels/birds are rapidly approaching extinction or you miss a lot =D

The kind of hunting I do, I usually get one shot and that's it. You hit it or you don't get a second chance. And the number of hunting targets I get (that I am willing to take anyway) is very low...on the order of less than half a dozen at a time, but often just one.

 The only time I drop more is if I am just shooting at paper for practice with form and shake control.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish here...it seems like you are trying to say that gas is a more precise and accurate hunting tool.

Even if we assume that that is true, there is such a thing as functional irrelevance.

If  I can put my springer-powered pellet on target enough to drop my quarry of choice, and I like and enjoy my gun, how important is the observation that there is an alternative that might do it a litle bit better?

If and when I start missing all my shots because of the gun and not because of my shaky gun handling, then I will be happy to buy whatever-powered rifle will get the job done -- be it gas, rubberbands, or nuclear power.

Offline nmmike

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I stated earlier that your opinion was as valid as anybodys. What you seem unable to grasp is that the opposite is also true. You started this thread knowing it would be cotentious & you got your way. Not everyone agrees with you & that's just the way it is, move on. A lot of us left other forums to get away from this type of post. You can have an opinion & still get along.
Respectfully,
nmmike

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CG:

Yeah, I determine where that one-shot group is going to go on paper.... Sometimes..  Sometimes I use empty / fired 12 guage shotgun shells, placed so that the head of the shell is the target.  Pretty much hit that on the first shot -point proved, call it good, and move on with the hunting.  Or I use my regulation-spec air rifle metallic silhouette ram, freshly painted, so I can see the splat marks after I topple it a few times from the 45 yard line.

I appreciate your comments regarding the fact that not all have the benefit of qualified professional instruction and coaching, so I reckon I'm ahead of the curve in that regard, as I not only had it in college, but throughout my tenure in law enforcement, as well.

I still hold a station record for most consecutive Distingusihed Expert qualification quarters in a row at 28, using an as-issued Beretta M-92F 9mm pistol to earn 28 DX marksmanship medals.  I still have that little pile of 10K gold medallions in a keepsake box to remind me what the combination of paying attention in class, accepting instruction and constructive critisicism, and the application of discipline can do.  In law enforcement, I also taught combat pistol shooting and advanced weapons training, so I've got a lot of background to lean on.

I apply the same focus on training to recreational air rifle shooting as I did in combat pistol shooting when I was 10-8.

Which is why I can do what I do.  I practice, but I practice the proper technique.

My point, though, is that I am not naturally blessed with superior vision (corrective lenses since age 2) or hand-eye coordination (.242 high school batting average sort of says it all in that regard), yet I could still set a marksmanship record that has managed to go unchallenged for nearly 11 years, as far as I know.

Back then, peers would say, "I wish I could shoot like you do," and I would say, "No you don't, because if you did, you would."

Terse?  Probably.  But the thing that they didn't get is that I wasn't born with an M-92F pistol in my hands or the skill to use it.  I had to learn it.  I had to develop it.  And once developed, I had to maintain it.  That takes time and it does take effort.  It takes the discipline to not let other things get in the way of practice time.  It takes the discipline to establish a regimine and the discipline to stick to it.

Shooting is a degradeable skill.  Yet it is something that just about anyone who really wants to be really good at it can manage to do IF they are willing to put in the effort.

And that is why I fall on the side of the fence that I fall on when the subject of pcp v. springer comes up (which I know is not the way you framed it in your post and I gather that you aren't one of those pcp or nothing types from your continued contribution to your thread).

For me, a springer IS very easy to shoot.  I don't put a lot of thought into it or fret over hold.  It's like driving my Porsche in that regard.  I don't think about clutching and shifting the manual gearbox.  I just get in the car and drive the thing.  It is kind of the same deal with me and springers.  I just pick it up and shoot it.

But I can do that because I have the luxury of being able to shoot it A LOT.  I'll easily go through a tin of pellets in a single session at times.

And the practice that I put in with the springer applies to the offhand shooting that I might need to do in big game hunting, or the shooting that I do in military match comps or highpower silhouette.  I use the same hold technique in silhouette that I use in springer shooting, for much the same reason, as springers don't have a lock on hold sensitivity.

Some would say that pcp is easier to shoot than a springer is.  Because shooting a springer well is fairly easy for me as a result of the effort I put forth to make it so, I would be more inclined to say that pcp is more forgiving of sloppy technique, or even a near-total lack of it.  That, in and of itself, doesn't make the pcp automatically better.  In fact, because it is so forgiving, that forgivness works agaist me, because I am counting on my springer shooting to apply directly to other shooting disciplines that I engage in, which are equally unforgiving of poor technique and in which the proper technique is substantive similar.

The above is not meant to impune your shooting abiility, CG, as I know you're an experienced guy and very likely shoot as well as I do if not better, and you may not have to work as hard at it as I do.

I have to work very hard to maintain whatever skill level I've got.  But I don't mind putting forth the effort and, frankly, enjoy it.

Great post, CG.  It's been a fun thread to read.  Thanks for getting the dialouge started!

-JP

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Looking back at my posts in this thread,I realized that some have been a bit rude in tone (reaction to the aggresive  vibe I got from some of the replies,but that's no excuse) My opologies for my  rudeness,and  any ruffled feathers.
 I have to say I have a great deal of respect for anyone who decides to devote the amount of time and effort needed to shoot a springer well "from your hind feet" as one of the grand old men put it. There's no question in my mind that you shoot better than I,and that's my fault. I do think that few are dedicated enough to make those hours available.
 I believe I understand the apeal of springers,and I think the comparison to blackpowder and traditional archery is a good one.I like old scholl tech myself(my car is a 35 year old Fiat X1/9,my streetbikes were all singles,and I'd much rather own a sailboat than a powerboat)and  I have found myself considering taking up both on several ocasions,but recognize that I have too much on my plate already. I own 6 old springers, love them dearly,and find myself looking at other springers with lust in my heart. I find gas guns easier to shoot,(and tune),so I hope I can be forgiven for proposing  a test that will show them in their best light.
So....this thread got pretty far from my original intent,which was to encourage airgunners to see for themselves what their real accuracy is likely to be in the field.(with an only slightly veiled agenda?LOL) I hope it was usefull....

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or those who shoot them.As I've stated several times in this thread,I own quite a few springers,and l like some of of them quite a lot. Why is it that posts that point out the limitations of springers  are seen as trolling,and those pointing out the limitations of gas guns are not?
 The shot string numbers were refuting the contention that gas guns are tethered to their bottles,I  rarely shoot 50 shots on a hunt myself,that was the point. I HAVE,on ocasion(groundsquirrels in Idaho) shot hundreds of shots at live game in  a few hours.I did miss many shots,but at 50-70 yards on a target that might be as much as 3"x6",(probably more like 2"X4",and many time less, since they often show just their head above ground) I think I can be forgiven a 20% miss rate.I was able to score that well BECAUSE I could count on the same POI whether sitting or standing.

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hey nothing wrong with an agenda

I think in general setting a thread up in such a way that effectively says that anyone who buys a springer is ill-informed is going to generate some unintended hurt feelings.

A lot gets lost in text. Like I tend to be far too cynical and sarcastic and that just doesn't translate well in text...no body language or such to accent the words.


  • Guest
Nah it's not like that at all
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2006, 01:13:34 PM »
I don't think you were trolling, I think you feel that your world view is right based on your experiences and you wished to share your observations.

If someone posted up a message basically saying the same thing you did but flip gas and springer, you'd still find people taking objection to it. It's probably just that more people use springers is all.

I just think you need to be a little careful in how you extrapolate your experiences to cover those of your felllow air gunners. Careful in the sense that what's right for you may not be right for someone else.

Indeed, that's why you see so many different types of guns out there.

I hope you don't think I'm just taking shots at you (pardon the pun). I just enjoy spirited exchanges and I don't mean anything personal by it.

Offline Gene_SC

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This thread has played out. Nothing gained by beating....
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2006, 02:50:54 PM »
a dead horse to death.  

Gene
THE ONES I SLEEP WITH: BSA Lightning XL, AA TX-200, AA ProSport, BSA Ultra, HW-97K, Crosman NPSS .177, FX Cyclone, HW-30 Nicle Plated, AA-S200, Crosman Marauder, CZ-634, R-9 DG, Webley/Scott UK Tomahawk, Benji Kantana, Benji Marauder, Benji Discovery.....
....

Gene\'s Tunz n Toyz
Springer Tunin