I'm confused about shrouds

[wvkeith]

I'm sure there's more than just me that are confused. Why is it that a gun such as the Logun S-16 can have a shroud that is easily removed and makes the gun quieter, but I can only legally have an after market shroud that doesn't dampen the noise any? I know the federal regs say if it's removable without destroying the gun, etc. But the shroud on the S-16 can be removed quite easily, without destroying the gun or the shroud, right?


http://americanairgunhunter.com/logans16.html

The Logun S-16 is a take-down design which packs up into a fairly compact and easily transported case, facilitated by the detachable bottle forestock and barrel shroud.

I guess I'm going to have to spend some hard earned air gun money to ask a professional to explain this to me.

[Gene_SC]

Shrouds can lower the noise on some air rifles but not to a point of a muffled sound. The shroud you are speaking of is just that. A shroud and not classified as a sil___cer.  Allot of air gunners send me emails asking me if my custom shrouds would deadin the muzzle report. I tell everyone that it may or may not lower the noise but that I do not make them for that purpose. Neither do I make my custom brakes to quiet the muzzle report.

Take Gamo for instance with there Gamo Whisper. The muzzle brake is specifically made to lower the report on muzzle. And it is not removeable. The law is pretty simple.

Gene

[wvkeith]

Gene_SC - 12/8/2007  11:15 PM



Take Gamo for instance with there Gamo Whisper. The muzzle brake is specifically made to lower the report on muzzle. And it is not removeable. The law is pretty simple.

Gene

Ah, but it's not so simple as that. The shroud on the logun s-16 is removable and does make the gun extremely quiet (according to reports I've read).

[daved]

I think I may have the answer, Keith, but it will take a call to Pyramyd or someone to verify.  The S16s is the shrouded version, and I think it's made in a couple of different variants, one for the European market, and one for the US.  I also noticed that PA's site is advertising the S16, no small "s", so maybe there was a legal issue?  I believe the original S16 was unshrouded, more like a Talon with the barrel sticking out of the frame.  It gets even more confusing, depending on what you read where; some sites say detachable, modular shroud, some say integral shroud.  

I'd be interested to hear what you find out, this gun recently ended up on top of my "next gun" list :-).  I love my Talon SS, but a repeater is starting to be more interesting.  Noise level isn't a deal breaker for me, but quiet is nice.  Later.

Dave

[wvkeith]

What about the new "device" (as it was/is called) that Tom Gaylord wrote about for the Condor? Easily attached with a grub screw....

I don't know if an unbaffled shroud would qualify as an illegal item or not. That's what I want to find out. If I use high temperature epoxy to attach a delrin shroud to my air gun, would I be violating any federal regulations? Since the epoxy has a higher melting temp than the delrin, you wouldn't be able to remove the shroud without destroying it. Cutting it off at the end of the barrel would only give you a piece of plain tubing about six inches long. Would that constitute a violation?

[Gamo X-Ring Shooter]

I don't know if this answers your question any but here is a really good article I read on the subject some time ago that I think everyone might be interested in.  It explains the laws about it pretty well.


http://www.beemans.net/MuzzleBrakes_on_airguns.htm

[Big_Bill]

Fellow Members,

The Rules of the GTA are NO discussion of devices that are unlawful and can be described as sile__rs ! They are the RULES !

As for your Questions, you should go to ATF.GOV for answers to your Questions, or contact your local division of the ATF.

I have spent an hour or more reading the current ATF Regulations, and they are: Any part or parts that can change, alter or reduce the sound of a firearm. That your device is subject by itself, alone and not connected to anything as a Destructive Device. And that any Questions as to exemption must be submitted to the Director of the ATF's Office in writing, along with diagrams, photos, and device in question. That each Device will be decided individual by the Directors Office.

This means that if YOU are caught with the parts or device, and it is determined to fall into this category, you will go to jail ! Please read the following website:

http://www.beemans.net/index.htm

Should YOU decide that these Laws do not apply to you, that is your problem. But you still can not discuss on this forum.

Bill

[wvkeith]

Big_Bill - 12/9/2007  2:47 PM



Fellow Members,

The Rules of the GTA are NO discussion of devices that are unlawful and can be described as sile__rs ! They are the RULES !

And by unlawful devices are you meaning the illegal logun s-16 pyramydair sells? Or the illegal Condor? Or the illegal tallon ss? I've never once mentioned an illegal device. I'm simply talking about delrin or aluminum shrouds of the same type that a large percentage of airgun owners use. Just a plain tube. I'm just pointing out that it's bs that some higher priced airguns can have a removable shroud (factory installed or not, it's still removable), that reduces the muzzle blast,  while my el cheapo chinese gun can't. Now if I can't talk about shrouds, and that is all I've talked about, then that's fine. I just ask that nobody else be allowed to talk about them, post pictures, offer to sell, make, etc.

[Big_Bill]

Keith,

Please read the Beeman Website under Airgunology 101, Airgun Sile--rs.

According to their information, no exceptions were issued on those models or any models that quiet the airgun. If caught with those models you very well may be prosecuted. Read their explanation of this topic.

Airgun Moderatorsor Shrouds that are made to, or change the sound of the airgun cannot be discussed, at all.

Let us move on to better topics !

Bill

[Splash]

Laws is laws and you can't get around them unless your OJ. If you want such a devise on your air gun, call your state and local law officials and find out if you can have it, if so get it in WRITING. I think,could be mistaken, that as long as it will not work on a firearm,which an airgun is not, depending on the local officials interpretation, you would be fine. With that said if youare worried about desturbing the neighbors, with an airgun, then you probably shouldn't be shooting it in that area anyway. And I further feel that this is enoughtalk about this subject on this forum. Just my oppinion and I will leave it at that.

If anyone thinks I overstepped ant bounds,please delete,or edit as you feel nessesary.

Mike